Are Umbies good form?

[numbersix]

I've never done it, nor seen it, but I just wonder ...
Is it or is it not permissable for an incident marshal to have an umbrella on duty?

[Mike Kelly 1]

I have used an umbrella between sessions in order to keep the rain off me for a while (WTCC at Brands was the last time) One of our flaggies at post 2 on sunday's DTM meeting was using one in a rather eye catching shade of pink inbetween sessions for a bit of shade. It was like having Penelope Pitstop on post!

[garybirch]

Same as Mike, I've used one inbetween sessions.
I don't think you should use it while racing is on.

[archaic gold]

I don't think you should use it while racing is on.[/QUOTE]

I agree - bright red is not a good idea!!!!

[Dave Brand]

Seems like a concensus here. Between sessions, fine, but with cars on circuit, no - I've seen it, an enormous fishing umbrella! I asked the person in question to put it away (oo, er, missus!) once the cars came out.

[b1ackcr0w]

What is wrong with an umbrella if it's a colour that can't be mistaken for a flag?

I've heard some people say that it impedes the speed at which you can run away. Which I think is balderdash.

I've heard an argument that it would slow you from getting to an incident. This I also think is balderdash. I was always taught you should wait for the dust to settle before attending an incident. If you haven't got the couple of seconds to retract and drop your brolly, then I'd say you're rushing into the situation too flippin' quickly!

And the most proposterous scenario I've heard is that "the brolly might get blown away by a gust of wind"? Well, frankly if you can't handle a brolly in a breeze, what hope have you got of safely handling a fire bottle or any of the other equipment used at an incident. Should you really be at a race circuit if you can't be trusted with a brolly?

Until somebody can prove to me that a brolly that was not the same colour as a flag was the unavoidable cause of an incident, or somehow made an incent worse, then I can't say I agree.

Oh and one last thing. If it's tiffing down with rain, and you have a lengthy extraction to do, don't you think the driver or the rescue crew might appreciate or even need a bit of shelter? A brolly seems like a damn handy item to have then.

[Eddy V]

In Belgium and Germany they use brollies all the time. As long as they are not clashing colours. And as long as you do not stand in front of the flags.

Nobody minds, not the drivers or the spectators. Don't forget that the drivers see the umbrellas of the spectators anyhow, so there is no chance of drivers complaining they didn't see the flags.

You have ample time to put your umbrella away when something goes wrong. But, like with everything, you need to be careful when standing in a spot where a car may hit the armco. Tripping over the brolly when running away is a bit dangerous.

What is easiest? Putting your rainsuit on and off 7 times a day or using a brolly?

All a bit of getting used to.

[brickkicker]

Have to agree with Blackcrow on this one, cant see a problem with them, and the fishing ones sound like a good idea to me. If the circuit wont provide you with any basic facilitys to keep your kit dry why shouldnt you take one. And most fishing ones are made to blend in so shouldnt clash with the flags.

[Pike]

I once marshalled with a guy who had one of those half tent things that was ideal to keep our bags dry in, luckily we did`nt swap points through the day though once it was up.

Just as a aside brollies are`nt allowed on the pit wall during racing so would there be a issue of double standards if marshals were to use them on a regular basis on the bank? As for using one during a extrication blackcr0w - we would need a marquee over the aforementioned driver/car so the rescue crew dont get wet!!!!

[b1ackcr0w]

The pit lane & wall is a different environment to the bank, so, technically no, I don't see the double standard.

Have you put a lot of weight if you need a marquee to keep dry then Kev?

[Pike]

Not really - just a few rescue operatives, bit of kit, doctor & paramedic all involoved in extrication - would`nt all fit under a brolly!

[archaic gold]

A few years ago at Post 4, (Brands Hatch), I had to take an Incident Marshal to task for erecting a Gazebo. The idea was good, but as the Observer, it did come into my line of sight at times!

[Woolley]

Trying to think of any reason against it and I really can't see a problem. Be wary of flag colours and lines of sight, otherwise a dry marshal probably has better concentration than a damp miserable one, so will react at least as quickly in a danger situation.

I've seen 3 marshals under a brolly at the beer tent, in fact 5 when one of them was a girl...

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Pike

Just as a aside brollies are`nt allowed on the pit wall during racing

It's not that they aren't allowed, it's that they are actively discouraged! The Blue Book doesn't actually say anything about not having umbrellas on the pit wall during racing!

The reason for the discouragement, I understand, is that many moons ago my old friend and mentor, Mike Abbott, had a situation where someone carrying an umbrella was on the pit wall at Silverstone. A gust of wind blew said brolly out of the hapless chap's hand and onto the track, where it languished, upside down and almost on the racing line ...

I rest my case Your Honour

[scorch]

Personally i think it could be dangerious. you may as well take your gloves off and have a sit down too, amounts to much the same thing.

Apart form the obvious of having it blow out of your hand, i think trying to control a umbrella (especially the larger ones) will take your attention away from the circuit as you try to control it in wind.

I was under the impression that we go to the circuits to marshall not spectate.

[Woolley]

Really not sure that I can see the logic to that, where does trying to keep dry equate to spectating? Controlling the brolly in the wind? You could say the same thing about a hat. There's many other things that can distract your attention, high up the list being cold, wet and miserable and just wanting to go home.

The one downside is needing to get rid of it to run away, and maybe dropping it in the wrong place in the hurry, but it's a very different thing from sitting down and not being able to react.

[Eddy V]

You have, in normal situations, always ample time to put your brolly away. If you have to drop it, what is the problem? Somebody may run over it.

I have never heard of a Belgian marshal getting hurt because of his / her brolly. Wind? No problem.

It is like Woolley says, what is the best thing: staying dry-ish or getting miserable in your soaked rainsuit.

I adapt without a problem, being either at home (with a brolly) or in the UK (without one). But I know which way I prefer.
As an Observer it is a lot easier when it rains with a brolly: you can keep your paperwork dry under it.

[paul leedham]

I use my brolly during the BGP between sessons, as a flaggy on hanger straight it was the only shade I could get, without it I would have been fryed that weekend

[PenelopePitstop]

One of our flaggies at post 2 on sunday's DTM meeting was using one in a rather eye catching shade of pink inbetween sessions for a bit of shade. It was like having Penelope Pitstop on post!

Aren't you the lucky one

[Dave Brand]

Call me old-fashioned, but I have this strange notion that an incident marshal, or indeed any marshal, may just have some need to see what's going on on the track. When somebody is using an umbrella which, because of its size & the way it's positioned, is seriously impeding his view of the track & also, because of the narrow gap behind the Armco could possibly block his or his partner's escape route, I think that a request for it not to be used when the track is live may possibly be construed as not unreasonable......or have I just been brainwashed with all this silly 'personal safety' stuff.......

[Ian Briggs]

I was under my brolley for most of the GP weekend, admittedly, it was firmly tie-wrapped to the flag point, and not in any-ones way, and it kept the sun off me, meaning I was more comfortable and better able to perform my duty.
Cant see any problem with that.
When we go to the nurburgring we do take a gazebo, in fact two if we can get the space!

[Tracey]

Originally Posted by scorch

I was under the impression that we go to the circuits to marshall not spectate.

I'm also under the impression that we go to circuits to anjoy a hobby, not to suffer the torture of getting soaked and cold.

As always, I can see points for and against this issue - I guess it's another thing for personal choice, and how the brolly is used - they can also be tied down to give shade/shelter to kit.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

When somebody is using an umbrella which, because of its size & the way it's positioned, is seriously impeding his view of the track & also, because of the narrow gap behind the Armco could possibly block his or his partner's escape route, I think that a request for it not to be used when the track is live may possibly be construed as not unreasonable.

That comes down to appropriateness, though. If it's design or method of use causes a problem then that should be considered. Also there may be some posts where it's a real no-no and others where it's fine. I wouldn't go for an outright 'no', but a 'use only with extreme caution'. I have to say that while arguing the for position, it's not something I would choose to do, but I see no reason why someone else shouldn't if the circumstances allowed.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Woolley

That comes down to appropriateness, though.

Exactly - in that instance (an actual, not a hypothetical case) it wasn't appropriate. The trouble with questions like this is that too many people seem to see it as a 'yes' or a 'no' & take violent exception to any opinion contrary to their own. Life ain't black & white - it's zillions of shades of grey!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Ian Briggs

I, and it kept the sun off me, meaning I was more comfortable and better able to perform my duty.
Cant see any problem with that.

I remember a TV cameraman taking exception to a flaggie putting up his umbrella at Island In......the hand signal given by the flaggie when race control insisted that he take it down won't be found in any marshals' training manual! I won't name the flaggie.....he will no doubt have something to say when he reads this!