[Team] Ferrari: in F1

[GT6]

Another bad race for Ferrari they have got to do something or they will be classed as midfield and not even the best of the midfield

[broadrun96]

I think they're firmly ensconced in the midfield and Racing Point has their measure and McLaren on race pace. Even Renault seems like they can challenge when they don't break.

[S griffin]

Ferrari are in the docks, while Racing Point have become a top team. It won’t last forever with Ferrari, but it is weird seeing them amongst the midfield teams. Heads will roll if they don’t get anywhere

[JY BDC]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Just shows a lot of current fans don't really study the history of the sport. And probably look at statistics too much. I mean Kimi second

To me Schumi may have been the most successful, but compared with some of those list, he didn't quite have the passionate prancing horse image, unlike say Villeneuve, Alesi, Alonso and even Kimi and Seb

Watching some of the drives in the Benneton gave me a very different perspective of how much driving passion and skill Schumi possessed , compared to all the winning years at Ferrari. Those were of course fantastic years , but perhaps tainted with some of his "lesser" moments with Hill and Villenauve in the past , as we know the bad men do is long remembered over the good .... that said I do agree many of us , myself included , lack knowledge of the history of the sport , a lot of that down to the missing of the modern age filming / you tube clips we have today.

[JY BDC]

Originally Posted by GT6

Another bad race for Ferrari they have got to do something or they will be classed as midfield and not even the best of the midfield

What else do you expect when most of their (positive in lap time) developments are deemed illegal yet everything Merc does is acceptable ? Like the latest DAS thing ... it is even outlawed for 2021 , but yet they are allowed to gain an advantage for the entire 2020 ? some things in F1 just don't make sense. Still love watching and following it though ....

[Aysedasi]

Perhaps Merc are just more careful that what they do can't be determined to be illegal......

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Perhaps Merc are just more careful that what they do can't be determined to be illegal......

I think this ^^^

It's just a guess from observed situations, but it seems that Merc are open with the FIA about any proposed 'exploitation', and work with the authorities to reach an acceptable solution.

Other teams (such as Ferrari) seem to develop their 'exploits' in isolation, and attempt to use them without the knowledge of the authorities. When they are discovered, then they have to undo their work. If they had been open from the outset, maybe a 75-80% solution might be agreed upon, and they would be able to implement the change.

Some of this - I think - may be entrenched in the Italian mindset, where there is a natural distrust of authority?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Poor old Charles was given a suicide strategy to be fair to him.

They wanted to put Vettel on softs as well, but Seb asked for mediums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDasVVdtMXs

[Akrapovic]

Once again, Vettel calling the shots from the car. Same as it's been for years - Ferrari can't make the calls and the drivers have to guide the pit wall.

[S griffin]

Ferrari can't decide amongst themselves what to do, that's the problem. They need better strategists in the team, they are needing the drivers more than ever to tell them what's going on, rather than working out for themselves on the pit wall

[chillibowl]

Italian politics/identity is often cited as a fault but i never understood if this had more to do with just how various countries and/or its citizens view one another...after all Ferrari have been very successful over the years (arguably the most successful team ever), is currently one of the strongest brands in the world, and surely if its a measurement of dysfunctional teams then F1 has had a lot of those.

for sure though, across nations there are differences in managements styles and organizational structures but given Ferrari's history overall, shouldn't this indicate that their approach has worked more often then it has not?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Italian politics/identity is often cited as a fault but i never understood if this had more to do with just how various countries and/or its citizens view one another...after all Ferrari have been very successful over the years (arguably the most successful team ever), is currently one of the strongest brands in the world, and surely if its a measurement of dysfunctional teams then F1 has had a lot of those.

for sure though, across nations there are differences in managements styles and organizational structures but given Ferrari's history overall, shouldn't this indicate that their approach has worked more often then it has not?

I don't know much about pre 80s Ferrari, but other than the 2 titles in the 1980s, isn't almost every Ferrari title won under non-Italian management? When Todt and Brawn ran the team? There were a couple in 07/08 when McLaren were busy infighting, but it's always struck me as Ferraris best years were when Italians were not running the team?

[S griffin]

Ferrari did bloom for a bit in the 80s, but they didn't make the most of their chances, either through missing out on top drivers or their car being outrun by others. And we have had many changes of management through the years. Obviously Todt did enough to help them and Brawn learned a lot there.

Ferrari did well to win in 07, helped as you say by McLaren throwing away their chances, but they didn't quite get to those heights in 08 with their car. We'll see now what the future holds for Ferrari, who will be next in line to do the job

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't know much about pre 80s Ferrari, but other than the 2 titles in the 1980s, isn't almost every Ferrari title won under non-Italian management? When Todt and Brawn ran the team? There were a couple in 07/08 when McLaren were busy infighting, but it's always struck me as Ferraris best years were when Italians were not running the team?

Pre '80s their best results as a constructor were winning the WCC in '75 - '77 and '79, under the guidance of designer Mauro Forghieri, who more or less acted as the Team Principal. '70 and '72 had been promising but '73 was abysmal when Forghieri was sidelined and transferred to the experimental department by FIAT executives. Ferrari didn't turn up to either the Dutch or German GPs and their No 1 driver, the legendary Jacky Ickx, left half-way through the season. Prior to that they won the WCC in '61 and '64.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Ferrari did bloom for a bit in the 80s, but they didn't make the most of their chances, either through missing out on top drivers or their car being outrun by others. And we have had many changes of management through the years. Obviously Todt did enough to help them and Brawn learned a lot there.

Jean Todt was hired as Ferrari's General Manager in July 1993 and they finished 4th that year in the WCC, with second place in 1994 and 5. However it wasn't until Ross Brawn followed Schumacher to Ferrari and Rory Byrne joined at the end of 1996, did Ferrari's fortunes really change and the rest, as they say, is history.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't know much about pre 80s Ferrari, but other than the 2 titles in the 1980s, isn't almost every Ferrari title won under non-Italian management? When Todt and Brawn ran the team? There were a couple in 07/08 when McLaren were busy infighting, but it's always struck me as Ferraris best years were when Italians were not running the team?

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Jean Todt was hired as Ferrari's General Manager in July 1993 and they finished 4th that year in the WCC, with second place in 1994 and 5. However it wasn't until Ross Brawn followed Schumacher to Ferrari and Rory Byrne joined at the end of 1996, did Ferrari's fortunes really change and the rest, as they say, is history.

Luca was in charge of the company though and while Todt and Brawn would have been more responsible for the race team itself i would imagine the majority of department heads and employees would still have been Italian doing things in 'Italian' ways.

but if the person at the top defines the structure then one could likewise say that an Italian (Flavio) took a French/British team to two titles.

Originally Posted by S griffin

We'll see now what the future holds for Ferrari, who will be next in line to do the job

in fairness, im not sure what i think of Binotto. all accounts suggest that his job is safe which means it cant be safe!!!

Todt had Luca, Horner has Marko, Toto had Lauda (which must have been a tremendous mentorship)...

recently, Ferrari has had a string of team principles, none of whom seemed to have any legacy support at all and all ultimately seemed lost or overwhelmed by the job...if Michael had not gotten hurt i wonder if he could have been their guy? i have no idea if team principle or mentorship role was one Schumi ever saw for himself though.

[S griffin]

Luca was great while he lasted and he did well to get Todt and Brawn on board, they were very valuable to the team, but if it failed, it wouldn’t have looked good. The problem is when you’re running the racing team of a major manufacturer, you always answering to up above

For me Binotto seems alright, but he will not bring success to the Scuderia IMHO. He’ll be lucky to last another season.

It does get confusing all these team managers and presidents, some are more powerful than others, others just sit back and let the racing people do the work.

I doubt Schumi though would run the team. Maybe they could get an ex F1 driver as an advisor, maybe even one who is still racing somewhere. For me though, I doubt Schumi would have come back to the Prancing Horse, that was over for him

[GT6]

?not really certain he is in a fit state top do much at the moment THB

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GT6

?not really certain he is in a fit state top do much at the moment THB

Well no, obviously!!

The poster referred to what might Schu have done if he hadn't been injured back then.

[JY BDC]

If you go back to watch the races when Schumi was still with Benetton - ignoring the "bad ones" when colliding with Hill and Villeneuve that until today is remembered ! you will see what driving skill and passion is all about . And that car appeared difficult to drive , as were all cars of that era.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Ferrari have renounced a restructuring of their technical department.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...paign=widget-1

[GT6]

Panic setting in already, not a happy place to be this season i suspect

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Ferrari have renounced a restructuring of their technical department.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...paign=widget-1

Freudian slip or typo on "renounced"...

Renounced.... "To reject and stop using or consuming"

Ferrari may very well need to renounce their technical department!

Richard

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Ferrari have renounced a restructuring of their technical department.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...paign=widget-1

Wonder who will be in and who will be out. I would have thought it more likely there will be changes at the top

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Freudian slip or typo on "renounced"...

Renounced.... "To reject and stop using or consuming"

Ferrari may very well need to renounce their technical department!

Richard

Announced, renounced, either way it's an interesting development, in the current Ferrari saga.