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Old 21 Oct 2010, 11:00 (Ref:2777878)   #101
chunterer
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Hmmm....

The text with ther advert is possibly a bit off in places?

It says 4 cars were built and that the first one went to Australia mid-season 1984 and a second one was built for the second half of the Trimoco season.

But didn't we discover that the first car that got badly pranged Easter '84 was not written off but re-shelled and didn't it go to Oz after Spa, not before?

From the text it appears that we're are talking about 1 car built 1983, one built 1984 and two in 1985?

I thought it was one in '83, 1 in '84 and 1 in '85?
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Old 21 Oct 2010, 15:38 (Ref:2777981)   #102
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Yes, I noticed a couple of oddities and errors in there:'During 1987 one of the Toyota Celica Supra’s was also was raced by Bob Meacham and John Moss in the Silverstone TT – a round of that years ETCC.... '


This post earlier in the thread suggests 4 cars-


http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....6&postcount=81
  • 1- LHD car photographed on the homologation papers, which might have become the Per Eklund rally car 'B24XUW' in 1985
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_rowe/3122900021/
  • 2- 1983/4 RHD Win Percy/Gordon Spice/Tony Dron race car- sold to Peter Williamson in Australia in '84
  • 3- 1984 RHD Win Percy race car. Used by Sheene early in 1985 season, until totalled at Thruxton
  • 4- 1985 RHD Barry Sheene race car. Makes a couple of 1986 BTCC appearances, then shunted by Bob Meacham or John Morris during 1986 (rather than '87 as mentioned in the ad) TT practice/qualifying. Either written off, or possibly reshelled/rebuilt to become a privateer rallycar

A few more pics of the Eklund car from the 1985 Ulster
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_rowe/3122903737/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_rowe/3122903493/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_rowe/3122902839/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_rowe/3123731846/

Last edited by KA; 21 Oct 2010 at 15:46.
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Old 23 Oct 2010, 13:58 (Ref:2778930)   #103
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/16788879@N02/5105505924/

taken at oulton in 1984
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Old 13 Nov 2010, 23:56 (Ref:2789871)   #104
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Group A Supra

I should get on here more often, some great photos guys.

I have been trying to work out the history of the car for sale as well. I have lots of photos of the car and the spares with it from the previous owner a couple of years ago, and all I know is:

The parts with the car are definitely genuine TTGB Group A Supra components; they are in many cases identical to my car and were clearly built by the same people. The engine isn't an original nor is the injection system etc but everything else appears to be correct, and the spares would allow you to get it back to Group A spec.

The car isn't the original Hughes Group A Rally car, as that was left hand drive. It isn't the first circuit car, as that is in my shed.

The car is an original Group A car as it has Group A rally history in the period; that would be sufficient to get it logbooked in Australia and I assume elsewhere. Many of the component locations (fuel pumps, positions of brake calipers etc) are Rally specific: for example, pumps are underneath the boot floor on the circuit cars to lower C of G and cool them, in the rally car and this one they are in the boot.

What I don't know is the origin of the shell, and whether it is one of the two Sheene cars (mine was never driven by Barry). Car 2 was written off and I assume many of you have seen the video; the alloy cage would not survive that. Car 3 was also written off in 1986 when leased out, but not as badly as far as I understand; I have never seen photos but did corresponsd with the family of the driver. So two options: the car is circuit car No 3 repaired and converted to a rally car, or it is the remains, all the spares and an ex Toyota fleet road car put together in the latter half of 1986 as a way of at least being able to sell all those spares off for some return. I do not have any information which would point to which of those is correct, you would need to see all the documentation with the car which I have not done. Or trace the owner who rebuilt it.

And then buy it and sell me all the spares!

John
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Old 22 Dec 2010, 17:21 (Ref:2807449)   #105
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I should get on here more often, some great photos guys.

I have been trying to work out the history of the car for sale as well. I have lots of photos of the car and the spares with it from the previous owner a couple of years ago, and all I know is:

The parts with the car are definitely genuine TTGB Group A Supra components; they are in many cases identical to my car and were clearly built by the same people. The engine isn't an original nor is the injection system etc but everything else appears to be correct, and the spares would allow you to get it back to Group A spec.

The car isn't the original Hughes Group A Rally car, as that was left hand drive. It isn't the first circuit car, as that is in my shed.

The car is an original Group A car as it has Group A rally history in the period; that would be sufficient to get it logbooked in Australia and I assume elsewhere. Many of the component locations (fuel pumps, positions of brake calipers etc) are Rally specific: for example, pumps are underneath the boot floor on the circuit cars to lower C of G and cool them, in the rally car and this one they are in the boot.

What I don't know is the origin of the shell, and whether it is one of the two Sheene cars (mine was never driven by Barry). Car 2 was written off and I assume many of you have seen the video; the alloy cage would not survive that. Car 3 was also written off in 1986 when leased out, but not as badly as far as I understand; I have never seen photos but did corresponsd with the family of the driver. So two options: the car is circuit car No 3 repaired and converted to a rally car, or it is the remains, all the spares and an ex Toyota fleet road car put together in the latter half of 1986 as a way of at least being able to sell all those spares off for some return. I do not have any information which would point to which of those is correct, you would need to see all the documentation with the car which I have not done. Or trace the owner who rebuilt it.

And then buy it and sell me all the spares!

John
Hi following on from the advert some questions

Is it just conjecture that car 2 as you describe them was written off or was that confirmed by Toyota GB or Hughes?

Is there a chassis register for these cars?

There was a guy 'ADAM' in earlier 2005 posts that was looking for pictures to rebuild this or a similar car - is he still around?
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Old 24 Dec 2010, 16:16 (Ref:2808214)   #106
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I guess then it is all conjecture - certainly looks like a group A car - so could be one of the three circuit cars
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Old 5 Sep 2013, 05:22 (Ref:3299218)   #107
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Supra at Muscle Car Masters

Eastern Creek, Sydney...last weekend



Great pic, thanks but i've moved this to the correct model thread - for the earlier model Supra.

Last edited by chunterer; 5 Sep 2013 at 10:47.
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Old 5 Sep 2013, 10:46 (Ref:3299337)   #108
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Further post to consider. I believe a chap who races/used to race regularly in classis saloons has a Celica Supra that was once a circuit car that then competed in Irish rallying that may or may not be seen out on UK circuits at some point.

I think it might be the same gentleman who has the ex Rouse, Harvey Rover Vitesse?
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Old 3 May 2016, 13:38 (Ref:3638127)   #109
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Still need to confirm id of the MA61 I mentioned in 2013 is still in the same owners hands, I.E Nigel Garrett?

Couple of other points of interest.

Peter Lovett did the opening round of the 1986 series in a Hughes Supra.

David Sears did the British GP support round in one and finished 3rd behind the guesting TWR Rovers of Allam and J-LS.

I am guessing that this was in fact the same car and based on the info in the thread going back over the last 10 years (10 YEARS!!!) it was probably car no3which was Barry Sheene's second car.

This was most likely then the car badly damaged at the TT later that year?
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Old 7 May 2016, 23:48 (Ref:3639954)   #110
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MA61 Supra History

Unfortunately the intervening years have only bought more questions that I have no answers to. If you review the Japanese Touring Car Championship for 1985 and 1986 you will find three MA61s: the TOMS car (Minolta colours), the Sard car, and C-One. Mark Shurety has noted in other conversations on the Group A forum that the 1985 Hughes car driven by Barry at Spa, which presumably was chassis 3, was sent to Japan and became the Sard car. David Sears drove it over there in late 85, and Mark noted that when he went there with Walkinshaw Racing a bit later that the car was still racing as the Sard car in 86. David Sears drove it in Japan as late as Nov 1986 at Fuji, although for most of 86 it was driven by a pair of Japanese drivers.

Thus the question: if the Sard car is indeed a Hughes built chassis, and was racing in Japan in late 1985 and was used for the 1986 season there from March till Nov 1986, did Hughes repair the earlier Win Percy 1984 car used by Barry till Apr 85, and is that the car that was raced in England in early 1986? Would make sense, they repaired my car slowly after its Thruxton 84 crash and bought it out later for Spa 1984 and a few other events. But its only speculation, the current owner would have a far better idea.


Regards,

John
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Old 11 May 2016, 06:36 (Ref:3640792)   #111
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John do you have any clues to its current location?

Guessing it is the car that got shunted again at the TT that year but was it written off?
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Old 29 May 2016, 11:09 (Ref:3645439)   #112
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Unfortunately the intervening years have only bought more questions that I have no answers to. If you review the Japanese Touring Car Championship for 1985 and 1986 you will find three MA61s: the TOMS car (Minolta colours), the Sard car, and C-One. Mark Shurety has noted in other conversations on the Group A forum that the 1985 Hughes car driven by Barry at Spa, which presumably was chassis 3, was sent to Japan and became the Sard car. David Sears drove it over there in late 85, and Mark noted that when he went there with Walkinshaw Racing a bit later that the car was still racing as the Sard car in 86. David Sears drove it in Japan as late as Nov 1986 at Fuji, although for most of 86 it was driven by a pair of Japanese drivers.

Thus the question: if the Sard car is indeed a Hughes built chassis, and was racing in Japan in late 1985 and was used for the 1986 season there from March till Nov 1986, did Hughes repair the earlier Win Percy 1984 car used by Barry till Apr 85, and is that the car that was raced in England in early 1986? Would make sense, they repaired my car slowly after its Thruxton 84 crash and bought it out later for Spa 1984 and a few other events. But its only speculation, the current owner would have a far better idea.


Regards,

John

Hi John ,

I have a couple of photo's of Barry's car somewhere , i will dig them out . They were taken in the pit lane at Silverstone during testing late oct 85 .


Steve
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Old 10 Jun 2016, 16:15 (Ref:3648739)   #113
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Here they are , one of the engine bay also if that helps , cheers Steve


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Old 14 Jun 2016, 06:19 (Ref:3649557)   #114
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Sheene Supra

Some great photos Steve! Especially the engine bay, I didn't have a photo of Chassis 3's engine bay at all. Some interesting differences to my car in late 1985 but also heaps of similarities. The thing on the front of the exhaust cam is presumably a crank angle sensor - my car has an additional 24 pole trigger wheel hidden in the base of the dizzy where the mechanical advance mechanism was, and this is hooked up to the later GEMS computer in a way I never really understood; I assume this is a similar way of providing an additional input. Mark Shurety? Also they have modified the TPS a bit to use a Toyota sensor there but otherwise very similar.
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Old 14 Jun 2016, 07:21 (Ref:3649573)   #115
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Some great photos Steve! Especially the engine bay, I didn't have a photo of Chassis 3's engine bay at all. Some interesting differences to my car in late 1985 but also heaps of similarities. The thing on the front of the exhaust cam is presumably a crank angle sensor - my car has an additional 24 pole trigger wheel hidden in the base of the dizzy where the mechanical advance mechanism was, and this is hooked up to the later GEMS computer in a way I never really understood; I assume this is a similar way of providing an additional input. Mark Shurety? Also they have modified the TPS a bit to use a Toyota sensor there but otherwise very similar.
I would have thought that the gizmo on the exhaust camshaft was a phase sensor, not crank angle as the camshaft rotates at half crankshaft speed...
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Old 14 Jun 2016, 10:16 (Ref:3649603)   #116
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Supra

Yes should have called it a cam position sensor, brain not engaged.
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Old 16 Jun 2016, 19:12 (Ref:3650665)   #117
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Still need to confirm id of the MA61 I mentioned in 2013 is still in the same owners hands, I.E Nigel Garrett?
According to this week's Autosport, yes it is, and it will be out at the Goodwood Festival, driven by the owner and Barry's son Freddie.

The Autosport piece says that before he bought it Nigel Garrett had the car looked over by ex-Toyota GB team manager Gordon Mayers, who confirmed it was the ex-Sheene car, and as you said, had some subsequent history as a rally car.

So would this be the one, reported on the 'Bring a Trailer' blog about 5 years back?

http://bringatrailer.com/2010/10/21/...-toyota-supra/
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Old 17 Jun 2016, 18:26 (Ref:3651042)   #118
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According to this week's Autosport, yes it is, and it will be out at the Goodwood Festival, driven by the owner and Barry's son Freddie.

The Autosport piece says that before he bought it Nigel Garrett had the car looked over by ex-Toyota GB team manager Gordon Mayers, who confirmed it was the ex-Sheene car, and as you said, had some subsequent history as a rally car.

So would this be the one, reported on the 'Bring a Trailer' blog about 5 years back?

http://bringatrailer.com/2010/10/21/...-toyota-supra/
Yes pretty sure it's the same car KA. Good to see you posting on our fav era again!

Hope you fancy adding some thoughts to some of the other threads to give them a bump.
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Old 16 Jul 2016, 01:31 (Ref:3659001)   #119
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According to this week's Autosport, yes it is, and it will be out at the Goodwood Festival, driven by the owner and Barry's son Freddie.

The Autosport piece says that before he bought it Nigel Garrett had the car looked over by ex-Toyota GB team manager Gordon Mayers, who confirmed it was the ex-Sheene car, and as you said, had some subsequent history as a rally car.

So would this be the one, reported on the 'Bring a Trailer' blog about 5 years back?

http://bringatrailer.com/2010/10/21/...-toyota-supra/
So...any chance it may make an appearance at the Revival? Even as a static display?

and...did anyone get pictures of it at the FoS?
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Old 16 Jul 2016, 07:15 (Ref:3659019)   #120
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So...any chance it may make an appearance at the Revival? Even as a static display?

and...did anyone get pictures of it at the FoS?
Here it is at the FoS

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/galle...pra-51380.html
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Old 16 Jul 2016, 10:16 (Ref:3659035)   #121
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Tar! Nice...
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 10:01 (Ref:3758574)   #122
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Said car was recently up for auction (£40-60k estimate) at the Nick Whale Silverstone classic sale.

It is different enough to warrant investment but there are still a few grey areas about it's ultimate history and provenance as I understand?

However I would love to see an MA61 out in the classic Group A events over here like John Abbott's in Australia.
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