Sports 2000 - Enough Chassis for a series?

[Peter Mallett]

Well seeing as folks are moaning that the HSCC has in their infinite wisdom, thankfully not included S2000 into the real 2 litre championship/series. It would be interestiong to find out if there are a) enough cars around to run a series and b) which cars the posters would like to drive?

So go on then, tell us.

the answer to my first question is here: http://www.sports2000-srcc.com/

[zefarelly]

there's more than enough in one shed where I go to use the rolling road

[Mike Bell]

Iain or Alan should be able to give authoritative answers, but don't the historic Sports 2000 have their own race series anyway? (Within the umbrella of the association.)

I was toying with getting one at one time as they are good looking cars (well, most are!) and were reasonably priced at that time. One problem was that they didn't appear at any of the meetings where I would have the opportunity to race another car as well- so I guess this is what we are talking about- are there enough historic Sports 2000 to race at events like HSCC or Masters or whatever.... (other organisers are available)

Some of the cars from 'larger' makers were very close to their more powerful brethren in looks (not sure if any had same chassis?) and I reckon are still very quick in spite of engine and wheel restrictions.

Nice

[midgetman]

I used to have an Aquila, pre-production Shrike, and I just so enjoyed it. Would love to get back behind the wheel of one again, but it won't happen in the forseeable future

I thought it was a thriving series anyway, with moderns and classics both together?

[Peter Mallett]

If I understand the website clearly; they're shoving Duratec engines into the chassis. If so then it really doesn't follow any kind of historic ethos does it? But that may not be wrong.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If I understand the website clearly; they're shoving Duratec engines into the chassis. If so then it really doesn't follow any kind of historic ethos does it? But that may not be wrong.

If you take a look at the regs for the Historics you'll see that they are very strict on originality.

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks Dave.

I've had an interesting PM from someone who appears to be "in the know". Seems there's a thriving historic S2000 community out there and the purists who race in the historic Pinto class (if I read it right) get to visit Spa, and some events in Sweden. Also before I started this thread I had no idea that there was an existing S2000 championship for cars of any age up to current. So I've learned something, not least how out of touch I am.

[Mike Bell]

None of us are too old to learn, Peter

[delta]

"thankfully not included S2000 into the real 2 litre championship/series." "Peter as you said above that you did not know too much about Sports 2000 i am a little disappointed that you should come out with such a strong statement.

[John Turner]

Iain, I appreciate your enthusiasm for these cars but as has been stated there are races for them, and I have actually seen a few. However, I have never thought that they would be appropriate to the HSCC new series (unless grid numbers are seriously down). They have little in common, other than engine size; different ethos altogether really and not comparable. In that context, I have to agree with Peter.

However, if there is anyone out there willing to report back on any of the races for the historic element of S2000, would love to see them.

[Peter Mallett]

Lol,

I take it the sense of humour by pass worked then Iain?

Just because they share a capacity size with the HSCC cars does not mean they deserve the same status. And that statement does not mean they shouldn't have their own place in history.

[John Turner]

Indeed.

I might see if I can find a few shots that I can post of these cars.

[delta]

OK you two thanks for your reply!.I did not want to get involved with this topic. I do have a chip on my shoulder as some years ago when HSCC ran some group 4 races we were invited to run with them. These races were just so much fun with cars like T70's. B8's ect. We then got booted out because i think we were more of a nuicence out braking some very expensive machinery after they had just passed us down the straight.Anyway thats why I am a very miffed that our Historic Sports 2000 will not be allowed in to race.As I said to SAMD. " cai'z la vie".

[delta]

.I posted this pic some while ago. This ariving at La Source when i had the fright of my life as this well driven T70 came up behind me. Just brilliant.

[andy97]

Sports 2000 was in the doldrums in the mid 1990s & declined t such an extent that it was part of the "Club Sports 2000" series in 750mc (where Radicals started racing) which was a sub 2 litre libre series really. Thank to the efforts of a few people, Sports 2000 owners were encouraged to bring cars out of their barns to the extent that stand alone races could be run. The series has grown in popularity again & reularly has full grids at BRSCC meetings. In the early part of the decade, the decision was made to modernise the formula with a new engine & the 2 litre Duratec was introduced, whilst the Pinto engined classes were still encouraged.

There are now classes with good strength for new build Duratec cars with aero & sequential boxes; converted cars with Duratecs & aero but (I think) H pattern boxes; original Pinto engine cars & Historic Pinto engined cars from the very early days of the series. Usually the Sports 2000 club has 2 races - one for the Moderns & one for the Pintos/ Historics.

The cars have always tended to follow the style of the cars in Le Mans style races, thus early cars look very similar to the 2 litre Group 6 cars (& Lola & Tiga etc produced cars based on their full house designs). The latest cars follow the trend for swoopy bodywork & "podded" wheel sponsons that you might find in LMP2 type cars.

When the series was in the doldrums, cars could be picked up cheaply. Now a decent Pinto Lola might be 20K plus.

Most races are 20-30 min sprints (including being on the F Ford Festival bill) but the club also runs a small number of endurance races with 2 drivers. They usually have races at Spa in the "Summer Classic" & are eligible for invites to other races that w/e - one even won the 4 hour race against 911s etc.

Great cars in their own right. Where I differ from JTs view slightly is that these cars were originally designed to deliver the 2 litre "Group 6 experience" in an affordable package. They are not 2 litre Group 6 cars, facsimiles maybe, and they did not race in Le Mans (but may have in Interserie, not sure) but in their own way, I would suggest they have helped sustain the interest in these types of cars.

Should they be in the HSCC series? I don't know & their own series is doing very well; but I doubt that the HSCC series will get full grids of 30 (ish) cars, so why not have a Sports 2000 class for the early Pinto cars?

[John Turner]

Iain, remove chip and calm down; their time will come, or indeed has come, if you see Andy's excellent post above. It's just that HSCC don't cater for them; they can't cater for every historic series, although I'm sure Grahame White would like to achieve world domination if the race calendar could provide sufficient track time!

And I meant what I said, as a historic series, would love to get the S2000 reports and pics!

[Dave Brand]

I consider Sports 2000 one of the success stories of the last few years. From a poorly-supported championship with processional races it's been transformed into big grids with close, clean racing. From being something which I treated with a certain amount of derision Sports 2000 has now become one of my favourite racing classes!

At Oulton last year they had three races, for Duratecs, Pintos & Historics. Numbers may not be representative, as they included the Derek Bell Trophy in the Duratec & Historic races, Duratecs also had an invitation class & a number of drivers did both Pinto & Historic Races in the same car, but the Duratec race had 26 entries, Pintos 21 & Historics 18. I can't report specifically on the Historics (sorry, John!) but from memory all three were good, entertaining races.

At a time when we're complaining about too many series/championships chasing the same or similar cars I would seriously question whether HSCC, or any other club for that matter, should contemplate catering for Historic Sports 2000s; SRCC is doing a good job . . . leave it to them.

[SAMD]

AFAIK they ran at SPA last year alongside T70s etc. and in race one a T70 won overall and in race two it was beaten into second by a duratech. Also I heard that the duratech version is the fastest sports car series in Britian this year. A Pinto runs about 125 bhp and duratech about 195. Roughly.

[andy97]

That's right. Spa Summer Classic. The Sports 2000 guys usually have their own race but also race in others. I think it was a Pinto version that won the 4 hour race, against hordes of old 911s & the odd T70 etc. I think the Kremer 935 broke!

[Kevin Cooke]

Guys,

I picked up this thread from the SRCC forum, so this is my 1st post.

I run a Lola T492 in the SRCC Historic class and they are great fun and relatively affordable, last year I actually managed to win the Derek Bell trophy for 'mature' drivers in my 1st full year of racing (by scoring points in each round not by being fast I assure you)

The club is really friendly and Colin Feyerabend who runs it manages to get us on the best circuits inc this year the new Silverstone GP, Oulton, Cadwell, Brands (last year we did the Brands GP circuit) and of course Spa.

Last year I did the 2 x 30 min S2000 races at Spa (all classes inc the quick Duratecs + 2 Lola T70's) and the 100 mile race, attached photo from the 1st lap.

Whilst I'd love to do the 2 ltr group 6 historics I simply can't justify £100k + for a GRD or £200k + for a Lola or a Chevron or the rebuild costs for a BDG.

So if anyone wants to do some ecomomic historic sports car racing (exactly as John Webb intended when he set the series up) look no further than S2000.

Regards to all

Kevin

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome Kevin,

Good story there, thanks for posting it. And I think you've hit the nail on the head. A great club series in its time and now being brought back to life. Some very pretty cars racing in that championship.

[Chris Sharples]

Echoing what Kevin says, Colin Feyerabend does a fantastic job for S2000. He gets them an extraordinarily good calendar. Frankly I don't know when he finds time to eat and sleep.

A colleague at the HSCC (Chris Alford) used to race the cars in period and thinks they are tremendous value for money and great fun to drive. He says you can almost forget about engine rebuild costs.

It would be nice to see more of the earlier Pinto cars racing. They look prettier than the later cars. I recollect that when Iain Rowley and Alan Morgan made a big effort to promote earlier Historic FF2000s it took just a couple of years to get to a 40 car grid at last year's 'International Trophy'.

How many Pinto engined S2000s are sitting in garages and barns?

Chris

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Chris Sharples

A colleague at the HSCC (Chris Alford) used to race the cars in period and thinks they are tremendous value for money and great fun to drive. He says you can almost forget about engine rebuild costs.

He's one of the drivers I remember watching.

Originally Posted by Chris Sharples

It would be nice to see more of the earlier Pinto cars racing. They look prettier than the later cars.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Chris Sharples

I recollect that when Iain Rowley and Alan Morgan made a big effort to promote earlier Historic FF2000s it took just a couple of years to get to a 40 car grid at last year's 'International Trophy'.

How many Pinto engined S2000s are sitting in garages and barns?

Chris

Good question.

[Kevin Cooke]

Originally Posted by Chris Sharples

How many Pinto engined S2000s are sitting in garages and barns?

Chris

I have some intersting number from the clubs 'stato'. In the last 4 seasons 70 different Pinto cars raced and in 2010 alone 40 different cars raced. I suggest at least 50% of these are pre 83' or Historic in the clubs terms.

In terms of numbers in garages there are tons, the guy who runs my car has 4/5 Pinto's (think all historic) that didn't get out last year and one guy has 5 Pinto cars of which I think only 1 raced last year.

Lola made just under a 100 T492's, a fair proportion are shown on the Lola heritage website (see chassis register).

So as I say loads of cars avialable to buy or for rental drives if anyone wants to come out to play. Of course not all as good looking as my lola.

Regards

Kevin

[pd88]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

there's more than enough in one shed where I go to use the rolling road

Do they want to sell any of their Sports 2000 cars?