Matthew Nesbitts Massive Crash.. Lydden Hill

[shhh]

http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/20...ross-pics-only

[F.O.F.]

whoa!! lucky fella

[silver bullet]

Now that is worrying. Not only did his helmet come off but also his fire extinguisher flying around inside the car, while the driver had no helmet on.
I notice both the helmet and the extinguisher left the car in mid accident.

Maybe our CoC's could mention something about this in the drivers breifings before the next couple of meetings.
Also maybe the scruiteneers, when they are walking around the grid checking the cars, could also take a look at the drivers to see their helmets are fastened correctly.

I know it's the drivers responsability to make sure he is safe, but it is happening too often at the moment in all classes of motorsport.
I remember from my short oval days, at my home track (Warton) an official checked every drivers helmet and harness before he was allowed on track. You would be surprised how many were not done up properly!

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

but also his fire extinguisher flying around inside the car,

Same thing happened happened in pembery to a yellow mini when it rolled.
Not saying it happened in these cases but I have seen many fitted with self tapers !! Which is only looking for trouble. Don't know about msa rules but you now have to have two straps on the extinguishers on MSI events.

To be honest it would probably be safer to have no extinguisher in the cars for events like rallycross where a marshall is always reasonably near by for all the good AFFF does at putting out a fire. There is more chance of the extinguisher doing you damage flying around the car if it lets go.

[sihorton]

Looking at the pic's I'm just glad he had a head wrap around seat considering his helmet came off. If he didn't have a seat like that i think he would possibly have been badly injured.

Regards the extinguisher, i remember hals coming out too when he rolled at blyton last year. It's defo something that needs to be secured firmly in a rallycross car as they are like missiles in accidents.

si

[King Arthur]

Good points about the fire extinquishers. I will pass the well made points on to the BRDA technical people.

KA aka TW

[bigted]

Regarding Helmets being fastened, i have my opinion. I was sick of all telling drivers to arrive ready to race at the holding area.

I know Hal has started securing his extinguisher in in fear of it happening again.

[chris cake]

Can anybody explain why his crash helmet came off?
Surly it wasnt just because it wasnt fastened!

[silver bullet]

AFAIK there are only two reasons why a helmet would come off. Either it was far too big, or it wasn't fastened correctly.

[Minicross424]

To me thats a scary accident.
I rolled my mini hard at knock hill and the extinguisher was still intact after that.
Following on from what silver bullet said every harness and helmet should be checked as the driver leaves the dummy grid.
I also think that the msa should look at a compulsary introduction of the hans device.

[bigted]

I would hapilly check every helmet and harness, but as a driver your in charge of yourself, surelt the onus is on yourselves to look after your safety equipment.

I know some of you struggle with the basics like getting there in time etc

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

AFAIK there are only two reasons why a helmet would come off. Either it was far too big, or it wasn't fastened correctly.

Probably not fastened properly. There was a thread on TT a couple of years ago and IIRC it turned out that more than one driver didn't know the correct way to do up a crash helmet.

[Hog]

We do try and do a visual check on the grid, but it's not always easy to see.

If something is blatantly amiss then we will investigate - on first heats last Monday the chap with the Mondeo seemed to be moving around a lot - I asked him to pull his belts tight and sure enough there was a good few inches of slack taken up.

Perhaps a board held aloft on the dummy grid 30 seconds before releasing them to the main grid may help? Just a cursory reminder to "Check helmets and harnesses" would be enough of a reminder?

[275 GTB-4]

Very lucky boy...helmet straps can be wrenched off heads and can snap...violent forces involved sometimes..then again, some people place comfort in front of safety and slacken off straps...and I have seen a fella black flagged because he had an open face helmet on back to front

[Gnomex]

Originally Posted by Hog

Perhaps a board held aloft on the dummy grid 30 seconds before releasing them to the main grid may help? Just a cursory reminder to "Check helmets and harnesses" would be enough of a reminder?

Terrific idea dear Hog - the best ideas are usually the simplist! Then the onus would definately be on the driver. I suppose the board could also say "Have you remembered your bonnet pins?", or is that just a little too subtle? (just a joke).

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by sihorton

Looking at the pic's I'm just glad he had a head wrap around seat considering his helmet came off. If he didn't have a seat like that i think he would possibly have been badly injured.

I would have to agree, knowing from when i rolled the nova in mondello i had the wrap around seat (and in the current car also have one), i suffered no injurys what so ever only a bit of belt bruising.

Helmets types and what not have been heavily discussed in the racers section of ten tenths.

One such thread was:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88877

But this mainly raised concern for this type of happenigns for openfaced helmets..

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by Hog

Perhaps a board held aloft on the dummy grid 30 seconds before releasing them to the main grid may help? Just a cursory reminder to "Check helmets and harnesses" would be enough of a reminder?

Good idea, I like it. As bigted said the onus is on the driver to make sure he is safe, but as we know we drivers can be a bit forgetful, and we sometimes can forget important things
Also if you are in a rush to get to the dummy grid if you have had to fix something, or winning a 'B'/'C' final it may be good to have a reminder to double check.

Originally Posted by falcemob

There was a thread on TT a couple of years ago and IIRC it turned out that more than one driver didn't know the correct way to do up a crash helmet.

Maybe the scrutineers could check that each drivers helmet is the correct size, and that he can fasten it correctly. This could be done either at scrutineering or in the holding area before the first heats.
They always check the helmets to see that they are safe and legal, but you could have the best helmet in the world, and what good will it do you if you can't fasten it properly.

[dmy racing]

I have been in charge of the dummy grids for years and calling cars up to the grid but still drivers insist turning up without belts and helmet on. At the Croft nobody is allowed through the gate to the dummy grid without them.So maybe this might be awake up call to everybody.I will be at Croft,Lydden,Blyton and London so beware.

[tkiwan]

Juniors are legaly Children ie. under 18 and not responsible for there actions. I as childrens officer in Ireland for Rallycross events check them all before each Heat & Final. Bonnets, Boots, Gloves,& Helmets. Those pictures should serve as a warning to anybody involved in the sport as a whole. Our govering body MI & Sports Council require a childrens officer at all sports events for under 18's. It protects the child & adults involved in the sport. Even when the COC or The Stewards wish to talk to a junior a Childrens officer and a Guardian must be present.

[bigted]

i'm glad i'm getting out when I am!

Surely not being responsible for there own actions is a sweeping statement.

With the abundance of classes for under 16's in all forms of racing, it opens up interesting questions regarding handling of on course incidents.

[tkiwan]

just saying thats the law here. I know that u have your hands full with the big kids Ted without juniors.

[Upside Down Bug]

In fairness, the rules in Ireland are different. The Juniors in all forms of racing are deemed responsible for their own actions, else no junior in any form of racing could have points on their licence following an on track incident. However, the common factor is that all juniors must have their parent/guardian present throughout the day.

I should stress that the assumption throughout most of this thread is that the helmet was not properly fastened. Whilst it is extremely rare that helmets come off during an accident there are some even rarer occasions when the helmets come off for some other reason. In fairness, the benefit of doubt should be applied here, because we simply don't know for sure what caused it to come off.

As for checking helmets, harnesses etc, this could be another troublesome area, particularly if the checking is being done by non-qualified officials. If there is an accident and the harness or helmet fails, could the driver or entrant hold the non-qualified official to account for their actions?

As with many things in junior racing in general, the important thing is education.

[leonidas]

This is a tricky one legally. You're right to say that the MSA, clerk of the course and the organising clubs see juniors as responsible for their actions and fine them / endorse their licenses for misbehaving. However the law sees things a little differently. If a 14-y-o ends up getting hurt because he hasn't put his helmet on properly and the meeting organisers haven't checked its likely that the organisers could end up with a 'duty of care' lawsuit. I don't want to scare people but these sorts of things have happened in other sports. Worth being aware of.

[Upside Down Bug]

Fair comment about duty of care, my concern would be 'anyone' checking it's done up correctly. In motor racing the qualified person would have to be a scrutineer. In fairness to any other official we are simply not qualified to check. But we could ask the competitor and their guardian to be satisfied everything is in order.

But, I would return to the education point. For example, ensuring the parents understand the need to spend the money on a hemet that is the right size (and they may need to buy more than one a year because of the growth rate of the junior) and that the junior understands how it is fastened. It's something you see at all levels and ages, a competitor spending considerable sums on their cars, but scrimping on safety matters. I remember one very well know rallycross driver (from before I was officiating) who had two helmets, one to present at scrutineering and another for racing in, because it was more comfortable! There was also an occasion, quite recently, were a driver turned up to race in a helmet that he did not present at scrutineering. Needless to say he was not allowed to race.

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by Upside Down Bug

As for checking helmets, harnesses etc, this could be another troublesome area, particularly if the checking is being done by non-qualified officials. If there is an accident and the harness or helmet fails, could the driver or entrant hold the non-qualified official to account for their actions?

I totally agree. It is the drivers responsibility to make sure he is safe. The marshals have enough to do without making sure us numpties are suited and booted correctly. Plus it could be a little bit tome consuming. Thats why I like Hog's idea of a reminder sign at the holding area/dummy grid.

Going back to falcemob's point about driver not knowing how to fasten their helmets. Would the scrutineers be able to check this, and also that they fit correctly. After all they check the car is safe why not the driver also.