2012 IndyCar schedule

[Purist]

MS, you should know full well how much LOWER the chances are of making a new start-up work as compared to working from an already-existing entity, so I'll say no more on that.

I'll agree that the road course selection used to be better. Road America and Laguna Seca should be on the slate. And I prefer Portland over the Motorcycle Circuit at Sears Point. Now, if Ron Fellows and that crew could just buy Watkins Glen; I'm definitely annoyed about that track slipping away.

The 1994 oval slate was Phoenix, Indy, Milwaukee, Michigan, Loudon, and Nazareth. Nazareth is gone, of course, but there are some other good ovals that aren't 1.5 miles with 12-24-degree banking. Pikes Peak would be a thought. If they're still there, they'd need work, but Orlando and Chicago (not Chicagoland) also fall into that "flat", 1.0-mile class. I wouldn't recommend Dover, but I think Rockingham could be a good venue for the series, and it's not like NASCAR is taking advantage of the place.

As far as "designed for NASCAR", I'm not sure where you guys put Fontana. The other two ovals that spring to mind for me for Indy Cars are Pocono and Gateway. Gateway would certainly offer the closest thing to the challenges faced at Motegi. BTW, was it the concrete surface at Nashville that was the main issue? That track seemed like it was decent enough for Indy Car racing.

And I don't know, but something just doesn't strike me as being quite right with Indy Cars running ovals of less than a mile (I personally have nothing against either Richmond or Iowa).

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Now foreign drivers in the irl are totally unknown people who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag in european formula racing, usually finishing at the back of the field or at best mid pack(pippa mann for instance).

That's not true. Pantano was GP2 champion; Baguette was F-Renault 3.5 champion; Guerrieri would have won the F-Renault last year hadn't he missed several races.

Back to the schedule discussion: Purist, you are mentioning too many venues that were or are about to get closed. Most of the places you mention are far from populated places. IndyCar must tackle the places with highest population density.

If you see this list (I did it , IndyCar is present in 6 out of top 7 (Milwaukee stands for Chicago), and Detroit, Houston and Phoenix are inminent candidates. That's 9 in 13.

[NaBUru38]

Well, the other that we had official news: the Grand Prix of St. Spetersburg will open the 2012 season on March 23-25. Three days of competition surely menas that there will be several support categories (none of which are known yet).

[Purist]

Just a general piece looking at some of the angles; I like Servia's comments.
http://www.racer.com/racer-special-b...MC-RACER_DAILY

I know that Orlando and Chicago have been inactive for a while, but if they're still in existence, then who knows. They're good, flat, one-mile ovals. And Orlando is a quirky tri-oval to boot.

From what I understand, Pikes Peak is operational again. It's mainly used for testing, but that shouldn't be a problem. Denver is a major market, and it gives the series a greater presence in the Mountain West. Rockingham, N.C. has reopened and is used for races again, some of which have been televised. It's higher-banked, but there's decidedly more room than at Dover, and the straights actually flatten out for the most part, plus you don't have the concrete surface to contend with.

Gateway is an excellent, eccentrically-shaped oval, with a 1.25-mile lap, and low/moderate banking in the turns. It doesn't hurt either that Gateway is right at the confluence of I-70, I-64, and I-55.

Sorry, but I'm not confident of Loudon or Milwaukee taking place next year, so on events that seem secured for 2012, that's only 4 of the top 13 markets (Los Angeles, San Francisco, Baltimore, and Dallas).

And honestly, the series NEEDS to go to good tracks, regardless of whether they're in the very top markets, because those are the tracks that will promote good racing, and thus interest in the series.

Besides, those market divisions can be deceptive, and what I mean is, places like Florida, Ohio, and the more populated areas of California, Colorado, or Virginia/the Carolinas have so many people over such an area that you don't need to be right in that single massive named market. If you had to be right in the city, most road courses simply wouldn't work at all. Anyway, for a track like Pikes Peak, you have the Fort Collins-Denver-Colorado Springs corridor, plus Albuquereue is a few hours right down I-25.

Phoenix I think will be a harder sell than most places, and truthfully, I often haven't found it to be as interesting as a number of these other ovals, for whatever reason. I would kind of like to see Nashville again, especially with cars that actually take more driving on these ovals. Also, I think that track is the closest the series should get to going back to Atlanta, which demonstrated exactly what the problem was with these Indy Cars in packs on that sort of oval back in 2001.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i5Od...eature=related

Anyway, I'm not going to count on any of these proposed events, at least not until I see a proper, provisional calendar.

P.S. Just based purely on the tracks, the only one of these 1.5-milers I would keep would be Texas. I can't say that the others offer something more and/or special to add to having that one. We could really use the 2.0-milers back, the flat 1.0-milers, and one or two oddities: like Gateway or Pocono.

[bjohnsonsmith]

You certainly make some interesting points, especially about having tri-ovals in the mix. It would certainly add more variety to the calendar, which woudn't be a bad thing.

I noticed in that clip of the Atlanta multi-crash, that back then the main stand was by no means full and the section prior to it was empty. Getting bums on seats seems to have been an ongoing problem for the IRL/IICS.

[Purist]

Small update: I found in one of my books that Chicago was finally demo'd in 2009.

Also, Orlando still seems to still be around, and though they don't appear to have the spectator facilities up now, they host events, including a unit of the "Richard Petty Driving Experience".

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

Small update: I found in one of my books that Chicago was finally demo'd in 2009.

Also, Orlando still seems to still be around, and though they don't appear to have the spectator facilities up now, they host events, including a unit of the "Richard Petty Driving Experience".

Sorry is that Chicago Motor Speedway or Chicagoland Speedway?

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Sorry is that Chicago Motor Speedway or Chicagoland Speedway?

Chicago Motor Speedway...Chicagoland Speedway is actually active!!!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by marcostraz

Chicago Motor Speedway...Chicagoland Speedway is actually active!!!

I thought Chicago Motor Speedway was now used for horse racing.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Apart from the IMS, MIS and DIS, Chicagoland is the best Speedway in the world IMO

[NaBUru38]

I disagree with Purist. As Randy says on the article, IndyCar need to go to the places with best crowds and best show, not to the best strip of pavement. Randy first contacts promoters, not corners.

[Purist]

They'd have to have "best crowds" somewhere first for that to matter. Apart from a few key events, they don't really have those crowds.

The best tracks produce the best on-track "show". And all the side concerts/festivals/whatever in the world couldn't save ChampCar, so it MUST be the on-track product that does the work.

Frankly, this is the first season since about 2004 that I've even bothered to keep tabs on most of the oval races.

And you can talk to promoters till you're blue in the face; they still didn't do their job at Milwaukee and Loudon this year. So, it seems to be self-promote, and/or go to tracks that promote themselves because they're just that good.

[marcostraz]

I think that IndyCar has to go where it is needed and desired...and it's sad for an oval fan like I am, but in the recent years the places where IndyCar is needed and desired (in other words, where it recorded the highest crowd) are the road/street courses...this is the reality...I think that in some ovals like Chicagoland is possible to return because it's very spectacular and it made always great races...but at this moment Indycar has the best crowds in the road/street courses...

[mountainstar]

I always love when people come up with these "fantasy" schedules to run at all these places which in a lot of cases don't have any spectator facilities or proper safety setups for open wheel cars.

What is always left out is exactly where you find the people who will barf up the irl's $2 million sanctioning fee to get them to come out to whatever track.

[mitchbr]

Originally Posted by Purist

Small update: I found in one of my books that Chicago was finally demo'd in 2009.

Also, Orlando still seems to still be around, and though they don't appear to have the spectator facilities up now, they host events, including a unit of the "Richard Petty Driving Experience".

Orlando always put up temporary seating for the IRL races back in the late 90s, so there's no real difference at the track. I believe they also have IndyCar two seaters running there as well. I feel like this would be a great place for IndyCar. A unique, flat oval in the biggest TV market in the nation. With Homestead off the schedule, why not replace it with Walt Disney World?

Still, I'd rather see Cleveland, Road America, Laguna Seca, and Surfers Paradise back before Orlando (priorities!), but we do need good ovals.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

With Homestead off the schedule, why not replace it with Walt Disney World?

The way IndyCar is going, they might as well race in Walt Disney World.

Originally Posted by mitchbr

Still, I'd rather see Cleveland, Road America, Laguna Seca, and Surfers Paradise back before Orlando (priorities!), but we do need good ovals.

I would like to see these tracks back on the calendar. They either were or became perennial fixtures in the CART era. In fact why not adopt the CART calendar, those were/are some great tracks.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

Orlando always put up temporary seating for the IRL races back in the late 90s, so there's no real difference at the track. I believe they also have IndyCar two seaters running there as well. I feel like this would be a great place for IndyCar. A unique, flat oval in the biggest TV market in the nation. With Homestead off the schedule, why not replace it with Walt Disney World?

Still, I'd rather see Cleveland, Road America, Laguna Seca, and Surfers Paradise back before Orlando (priorities!), but we do need good ovals.

I have been told reliably that WDW will never be used for any racing again.

Again, pointless to discuss fantasy tracks, yet again, creating fantasy schedules that have no basis in reality. Find me the money man first that wants to lose a few million on bringing the irl to town.

[NaBUru38]

Another proper piece of news: the Detroit Grand Prix has 50-50 chances for 2012, and in four weeks we will get the confirmation.

[QUOT=Roger Penske] we've had conversations with some sponsors and people who are interested to bring the race back and I would assume that if it's possible we'd like to bring it back next year [/QUOTE]

[Purist]

I wonder if this would be another weekend with the ALMS, like it was in 2007-08.

Now, I suppose, we just need the updated rumor mill on Houston.

[Yannick]

This rumor of a comeback of the Belle Isle race is a sign of recovery of the economy of the Detroit area. It's great to see the people there are interesting for sponsors again.

However - why Belle Isle when the trend everywhere else seems to be to head downtown? Downtown Detroit already has a great circuit layout with some history even (something which could be good on the promotional side of things).

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Purist

Now, I suppose, we just need the updated rumor mill on Houston.

All signs point to 2013 for Houston, not 2012, but it's still possible.

[Purist]

Yannick, the downtown Detroit course was last used, by CART, in 1991. I wouldn't call it a bad street circuit, especially compared to some others we've seen over the years. The trouble is, it's VERY busy. In 2.5 miles, the official corner count for F1 was 20. Now, CART ran without the chicane on the pit straight in 1989-91, but that didn't do a whole lot to bring down the lap times. In fact, the fastest F1 lap was a 1:38.301 (91.556mph) set in 1986. The fastest lap in the CART years was a 1:41.442 (88.721mph) set in 1991. There are a few decent straights, but there are also 12 hard, 90-degree turns. Also, the Indy Cars would NEED to have more power and less drag to make Turn 1 on that course a decent overtaking spot.

Belle Isle is probably no worse for overtaking potential, especially if they used the 1998-2001 layout again. It's pretty darn close to downtown as it is. Also, it's a rather more attractive setting for a race track.

If they still really want a race in Quebec, isn't Sanair still around?

Also, it's been quiet lately on the Porto Alegro, Brazil front, though a second race down there wouldn't surprise me.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110827/IRL/110829874

China Likely in 2012, great...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110827/IRL/110829874

China Likely in 2012, great...

You can expect to see a lot of empty seats, not to mention Bernie's feathers being ruffled.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110827/IRL/110829874

China Likely in 2012, great...

What the heck are they looking for there? Empty seats or what? The manufacturers aren't directly involved in the series, so why China? Is the series broadcasted in China anyway?

First of all they should rebuild their North American base. Then they can expand internationally again. But only to places which have heard of IndyCar. Such as Australia or Germany.