2012 IndyCar schedule

[Jacques Rabbit]

IndyCar needs to just cater to the niche. They will never be a major sport again under any circumstances. Auto racing in general is fading out in this demographic, and those left aren't going to swing into Indy. Sorry to be Rita Reality.

Pick an actual direction that will completely exploit the people who want to watch open-wheel racing in America, and then go internationally to supplement that...but only to markets where you'll succeed.

They'll never have a big North American fan-base again, so these subsidized trips to foreign countries have to happen to keep the sport going in North America. But Brazil makes sense in that the sport has more fans there than here, everything is paid for and then some, and there are actually Brazilian sponsors helping the series by funding drivers like Kanaan.

[mitchbr]

All I can say regarding the probability of China is money talks. Anyone have an idea what the track would may look like?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

All I can say regarding the probability of China is money talks. Anyone have an idea what the track would may look like?

I would have thought they would race at Shanghai.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

All I can say regarding the probability of China is money talks. Anyone have an idea what the track would may look like?

Its going to be a street race in Qingdao, so the only thing I would say is certain are no or empty grandstands. Hopefully it isnt as bad as the DeathRace 2000 circuit that Superleague Formula raced at in Beijing last year.

Perhaps they can schedule a race in Hawaii or a Railroad track jumping competition in California.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Personally I think it's going to be a complete waste of time.

[nickyf1]

As Jacques Rabbit said, they need to ''cater the niche''. They need to try to go to places where they will get good crowds. All those Road Race staples of CART are missing. Elkhart Lake, Laguna Seca... Whats stopping them from double headlining with the ALMS at these two venues?

How about going to a road course in Canada too?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

As Jacques Rabbit said, they need to ''cater the niche''. They need to try to go to places where they will get good crowds. All those Road Race staples of CART are missing. Elkhart Lake, Laguna Seca... Whats stopping them from double headlining with the ALMS at these two venues?

A lack of forsight and commonsense.

[mitchbr]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

A lack of forsight and commonsense.

What else would you expect from a series in which race control's only consistency is being inconsistent?

[mac]

Remember all those fans that used to watch CART/IndyCars back when it was awesome?

Those people haven't disappeared... It wasn't that long ago... They've just gone to sportscars or NASCAR or bikes or something...

I firmly believe that they still exist - they just have no reason to come back at the moment. The series is run like a joke, there are stupid rules like the one about the leader not being able to defend, the cars are ugly, they race at venues that most fans don't particularly care for...

Quite simply, the series is looking for a silver bullet, or a gimmick that will bring people back - the problem is that a gimmick won't do that.

IndyCar needs to create a good, solid racing product that gives the fans - especially those that have an established fondness for this type of racing - something to feel good about; a reason to feel like what was once good about the category is back. This isn't NASCAR...

You can't tell me anyone that watched Alex Zanardi's daring move at The Corkscrew wouldn't be enthusiastic about going back to Laguna Seca... Anyone that sat at the first turn in Portland and watched almost 30 open wheelers come barrelling down the long straight in to the tight chicane on Lap 1, wouldn't want to go back and see it again... You can't tell me that anyone who watched Paul Tracy bounce over the kerbs at Surfers Paradise - with a view of the beach in the background - wouldn't want to watch that again... Who wouldn't want to see cars nudging 230mph on a Super Speedway again?... What about 30 IndyCars going six wide into Turn 1 at Burke Lakefront again?...

All of this cool stuff was why people cared about open wheelers in the first place... They were no nonsense cars, driven by no nonsense drivers, with no nonsense racing, at some of the coolest venues in the world... bar none...

People loved it - people still have a strong affinity for how things were... IndyCar needs to start providing at least some of the magic that captivated people back in the day... It is the only way of even hoping to woo back those former fans that have been disenchanted for so long...

The good news is that there are interesting and quality racers still involved in the series... Heck, there's even Andrettis and Rahals still racing...

The schedule is a perfect opportunity to start taking some steps down this path...

Whatever it takes - even if it does not make the world's greatest financial sense - absolute non-negotiables for the championship schedule should be:
- Homestead
- Long Beach
- Elkhart Lake
- Laguna Seca
- Burke Lakefront
- Toronto
- Mid-Ohio

Priority should then be given to:
- A round in Brazil
- Milwaukee
- Belle Isle
- Portland
- Michigan
- A street race in Vancouver
- Surfers Paradise
- Watkins Glen
- Phoenix
- Loudon

After these avenues have been exhausted, then other venues should be considered.

Tell me the numerous fans that were once excited by American Open Wheel Racing, but are no longer, would not be excited by the prospect of seeing Indy Cars flying through the kink at Elkhart Lake, or bouncing over the bumps (three wide) at Burke Lakefront Airport...

Surely, it's not that hard...

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by mac

Remember all those fans that used to watch CART/IndyCars back when it was awesome?

Those people haven't disappeared... It wasn't that long ago... They've just gone to sportscars or NASCAR or bikes or something...

I firmly believe that they still exist - they just have no reason to come back at the moment. The series is run like a joke, there are stupid rules like the one about the leader not being able to defend, the cars are ugly, they race at venues that most fans don't particularly care for...

Quite simply, the series is looking for a silver bullet, or a gimmick that will bring people back - the problem is that a gimmick won't do that.

See that's the thing. I am a solid believer that with this ownership and management they will NEVER be able to see the light. NEVER EVER EVER EVER. EVER.

So I find it hopeless that people think they can build something around that ownership and management group and make it as successful as CART. It will not happen.

I think the ammo has been spent, what you are witnessing is a long painful death, thrashing about here and there, trying to stay afloat, but ultimately it's terminal. TV figures are non existent filler, most of the races are scratching at viability.

With panica patrick gone and this new fugly car coming on the scene, next year is going to be a nightmare.

I think the CART fans have mostly moved onto other things and wont be back.

[PZippy]

Hey Mac - I love the passion! And on many points I agree with you. I think, for example if Road America came back you would see a nice crowd, but then again I thought that would happen in Milwaukee and I didn't see many fans sitting around me this year when I did go to the race.

There's a dose of economic reality on the schedule. Few title sponsors, few butts in seats mean no profit for race promoters. Can't say I was impressed with the race promoters in Milwaukee for example but that's another story.

IndyCar needs a clearer identity, the new car and engine will help, but I believe this will be a multi-year proposition. I'm a fan a rodeo Randy, so I hope he gets his chance to continue with the progress he's made. But economics dictate more Brazil, and probably China. Why? Because people PAY to show up.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Come on you guys give China a chance, ya never know until you try it, (yes i'm a very optimistic person)

[Purist]

Well, they've proven they can come up with decent street circuit layouts in China (along with some real stinkers too, A1GP Beijing). However, the details often tend to cause serious problems. The 2004 Pudong Circuit in Shanghai was very open and wide, but they didn't get all the manhole covers welded down properly. In theory, I liked the layout of the 2010 Shanghai DTM circuit, but the walls around the pit-in made for a real bottleneck, and there were some serious bumps in that long right-hander leading to the start/finish line. We'll just have to see how Qingdao looks.

Part of this is showmanship, I'm sure. Having the third continent covered means that IndyCar can officially be called a World Championship.

Oh, and MS, good luck on your bid to buy, run, and manage IndyCar back to health. I look forward to seeing your best efforts!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by PZippy

IndyCar needs a clearer identity, the new car and engine will help, but I believe this will be a multi-year proposition. I'm a fan a rodeo Randy, so I hope he gets his chance to continue with the progress he's made. But economics dictate more Brazil, and probably China. Why? Because people PAY to show up.

I don't see China as being viable at the moment. The attendance for the GP is not good. Initially an IndyCar race might produce some interest but I don't see any longevity in China until there's some homegrown grassroots racing there.

South America is much more viable, why not a race in Argentina? They used to have a GP and Bernie doesn't seem interested in going there at the moment, IndyCar could fill a gap.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't see China as being viable at the moment. The attendance for the GP is not good. Initially an IndyCar race might produce some interest but I don't see any longevity in China until there's some homegrown grassroots racing there.

South America is much more viable, why not a race in Argentina? They used to have a GP and Bernie doesn't seem interested in going there at the moment, IndyCar could fill a gap.

I doubt that, just look at DTM at Shanghai and ILMC at Zhuhai, hardly anybody in attendance despite direct manufacturer support/promotion.

The Grand Prix would draw flies instead of a crowd if they didnt bring people into the circuit.

I just doubt Indycar could do any better. I just hope this goes better than CCWS/Zhuhai.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

I doubt that, just look at DTM at Shanghai and ILMC at Zhuhai, hardly anybody in attendance despite direct manufacturer support/promotion.

The Grand Prix would draw flies instead of a crowd if they didnt bring people into the circuit.

I just doubt Indycar could do any better. I just hope this goes better than CCWS/Zhuhai.

I said, "Initially an IndyCar race might produce some interest". I didn't say It would produce interest.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I said, "Initially an IndyCar race might produce some interest". I didn't say It would produce interest.

Sorry, thanks for correcting.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Sorry, thanks for correcting.

That's ok, .

[mac]

Originally Posted by PZippy

There's a dose of economic reality on the schedule. Few title sponsors, few butts in seats mean no profit for race promoters. Can't say I was impressed with the race promoters in Milwaukee for example but that's another story.

I'm FULLY aware of the economic realities of the schedule - however, with the awful state of AOW racing at the moment, there also needs to be a dose of short term pain for long term gain... However, this would require some vision and foresight on IndyCar's part...

I'm happy to use Milwaukee as an example... Whatever, it takes - move it back to the weekend after Indy!!!!!!!

Changing the date of that event takes away from the essence of what made it a success in previous times.

The reasons why:
A) Your pre-event promotion is done for you throughout the month of May... Milwaukee's not far from Indy - invite the entire Milwaukee media to Indy for the 500!
B) It just makes sense!!!

If a deal can't be reached with any of the preferred "traditional" venues, then look at new venues - but there are some that should just be automatic.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mac

I'm FULLY aware of the economic realities of the schedule - however, with the awful state of AOW racing at the moment, there also needs to be a dose of short term pain for long term gain... However, this would require some vision and foresight on IndyCar's part...

I'm happy to use Milwaukee as an example... Whatever, it takes - move it back to the weekend after Indy!!!!!!!

Changing the date of that event takes away from the essence of what made it a success in previous times.

The reasons why:
A) Your pre-event promotion is done for you throughout the month of May... Milwaukee's not far from Indy - invite the entire Milwaukee media to Indy for the 500!
B) It just makes sense!!!

If a deal can't be reached with any of the preferred "traditional" venues, then look at new venues - but there are some that should just be automatic.

Totally agree.

Whose idea was it to move Milwaukee fom its traditional place on the calendar and what was the rational behind it?

[NaBUru38]

I don't remember where I read it, but the Chinese race is meant to make IndyCar break even financially. It's just a temporal cash cow.

[Purist]

Qingdao (Tsingtao) may have a better chance of working than a number of other sites. It's had more foreign influence, and that includes from Western powers (Germany and the US), than much of the rest of the mainland. There's a strong German flavor to the old city, including (yes) the brewery. And being where it is on the coast, the city also has strong connections to Korea and Japan.

Here's the Wiki page for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qingdao

[Tim Northcutt]

Maybe it is just me, but I think that IndyCar needs to have its collective head examined for brain damage for wanting to go to China.

It doesn't help any of the team sponsors to go there in an economic climate where it is tough enough to get sponsors in the first place for races over here.

JMHO...feel free to disagree.

[Jacques Rabbit]

I think IndyCar's thought process is that even if they alienate sponsors, they will attract dozens and dozens of exciting new Chinese ones...

...not saying they're correct, but having TrinaSolar on the Schmidt cars must have made them starstruck by the potential for Chinese money. If they profit, miffed sponsors and owners will mean nothing...after all, they're always miffed.

The problem is that whole "if they profit" part. They certainly have had plans that didn't work before...

[Tim Northcutt]

All of that globe trotting sure worked out for Camp Car, didn't it?