SBR power for 888. (merged)

[Dutchy]

Is Ludo Lacioix the engineer that left Larkham Motor Sport to go to 888? Im sure i remember some european engineer leaving LMS to join 888

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Is Ludo Lacioix the engineer that left Larkham Motor Sport to go to 888? Im sure i remember some european engineer leaving LMS to join 888

Alex Zoechling(sp?) I believe was the engineer in question...

[racer69]

Originally posted by sukkondat
Subject to TEGA approval, 888 will use SBR powerplants next year. Wont Craig be happy

Why do you need TEGA approval to buy and sell engines?

[GTRMagic]

Because the technical definition of 'control' is quite unclear in the TEGA documentation....

What this transaction would mean is that 6 main series cars would be supplied with engines from one source... and its it up to the TEGA board to decide if this is legal or not.

The HMS experience is somehow different as the factory owns the business that preps the engines... yet curiously, the factory is not allowed to own a franchise :confused:

It should be a rubber-stamp job... but you just never know

[TSR]

Will some one from the dark side whige to TEGA about two strong Ford side combining together in the engine department.But then again the dark side can run 6 cars out of one shop.

[GTRMagic]

TEGA cant prove 6 cars are running out of one shop, but Mr Stone has already sent out a media release confirming 6 engines out of one shop.

The difference is subtle... one mob is up front and honest... the other runs Holdens

[peckstar]

im pretty sure TEGA can prove the engine link though. Thats not exactly being hidden, and they can prove the Chassis link too.

This is really no different that Mr Weel owning Dencar i believe, hopefully just a case of rubber stamping to make it all legal

[GTRMagic]

The engines are built by Holden Motorsport these days, not HRT... indeed it says as much in the AA ads for engine builders for the Holden Supercar program.

HMS also dont hide that they are looking for a chassis engineer for the Kmart team, and that the successful candidate will be an HMS employee on permanent secondment to Kmart Racing....

[peckstar]

if its not rubber stamped then all SBR neeed to do, is create a new company call Kick holdens butt P/L and hey a new company supplies the engines, although in all seriousness (apart from the name) they probably already have. you wouldnt risk your race team by having potential claims against the engine supplier.

[GTRMagic]

I think the ethics and integrity of Mr Stone and Mr Stone would see them operate from the Stone Brothers Racing legal entity without fear or favour...

[00 XR8]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Alex Zoechling(sp?) I believe was the engineer in question...

I thought he was just the LMS wheather man

Anyway, the really interesting part in this SBR/888 deal will be in the "constant updates". You see, if the 888 boys can make a slightly superior chassis to the SBR boffins and are therefor marginally quicker due to having the same engine spec, will the next update take a little longer to come out of the SBR palace?

LMS and their small budget punch above their weight division but aren't really a threat to the Pirtek/Caltex powerhouse. 888 on the other hand could really rock the boat.........

[peckstar]

gTR your an accountant. it dosnt make good business sence. to mix this separate venture with the race team. Oner races cars to make money, one is a mechanical supply. I would separate the risk

[GTRMagic]

The only thing different about the SBR engine shop in 2005 is the scale... they may put on a couple of extra people in the engine department, for assembly and/or development... while the additional funds (i.e. profits) from the venture can be spent on more development...

... and if these deals come and go, the engine department is scaled up or down accordingly.

Its not a real distraction to their main business as it is adequately resourced in people and equipment, which is scalable....

I am sure they could build a myriad of corporate entities like a major sponsor in the series, but all it does is add complexity....

There would be risks to the venture of course, but Mr Stone & Mr Stone already stake their reputations on the engines being supplied, such that any comeback would be a slight on them anyway, likely as bad if not worse than anything that could happen externally

[Nicholosophy]

Should the Stone Brothers not be forthcomming with updates as agreed, or try to gain some advantage from the situation, they would loose out big time.

Reputation is important in motorsport, and it can bite you on the butt if you aren't careful. They have been reputable before so they can do these deals.

[fordo]

I cant see Ross and Jimmy shooting themselves in the foot if 888 is ahead of them by dragging the chain on developmental engine supply. They are not like that. Sure they want their team to win but if another Ford using their engine is the only car in front then it only enhances their reputation doesn't it. They are also not going to give an unproven product to another team if said team is ahead and have that team jepardise its points through engine failure. It all comes down to the bottom line which is $$$$$. I cant comment on the SBR drivers egos as I don't know them personally but Ross and Jimmys don't overflow. They are realists. "Every action has a reaction so watch it doesn't bite you on the ar.e." was something that was said to me by Ross when I was about 13 or 14 years old back in NZ at their BP garage in Tuakau(just outside Pukekohe). That is something they live and work by which has held them in good stead until now.

[Techo]

This is where the 'Team' of guys putting in long hours to be 'racers' now have work by the hour for a business profit.
This has been the begining of the end for alot of teams with staff getting cranky
It also takes one eye off your racing program, sounds easy to do these engine deals but in practise it has to be well organized.
One benifit is that you have control of your competitors engine supply, which did'nt really work out for the red team as they changed configrations & the old one was still better.
Lets hope it all works out OK, could this be the start of the ford teams co operating !

[Vee8]

What an absolutely pitiful thing it is for 888 to have to go to SBR, tail between their legs, and ask for engines that actually have a bit of go in them.

It's not quite in the same league of shame as Prodrive's FPR performance (or lack of it) but it certainly shows these Euro powerhouses that they're not as smart as they'd like to think they are!

[Vee8]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
As of 2005, Tasman drops the HMS supply roster, presumably as there wont be enough Auroras to go round.

Or perhaps because they have a well-respected component supplier as an equity partner who they believe will build a vastly better powerplant than the fourth-string HMS buckets currently being supplied.

[Gaz170]

I don't think they went with their tail between their legs, sounds more like a sound business deal to deliver some cost savings whilst still getting the latest engine technoligy.
I would be surprised if the Stone's haven't started a seperate company for the engine supply, even if purely for tax purposes. (Maybe the engine company has to pay rent for the workshop space they use, that sort of thing.)

[aj_308]

it makes very good commercial sense to pool funds into things like this, if the three teams spend, say 100k a year on engine development, together three teams might only spend 50k each. i don't see it as a cop out at all.

[sukkondat]

Whilst this maybe new news to us, I believe SBR/888 have known about it for quite some time and that the SBR factory is brimming with new engines-2005 spec with another 15 Horsies

[Crash Test]

Did 888 recently (like last couple of weeks) advertise in the press for a new engine man?

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Vee8
Or perhaps because they have a well-respected component supplier as an equity partner who they believe will build a vastly better powerplant than the fourth-string HMS buckets currently being supplied.

The words you use...

While Mr Harrop does manufacture components for engines, I cant remember the last time he nailed together a powerplant of his own...

... I am not saying it is impossible, more that it is curious that as some teams look to join a winning thing, Tasman is trying to escape one...

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Crash Test
Did 888 recently (like last couple of weeks) advertise in the press for a new engine man?

Yes they did.. it was a thread on here somewhere... 888 announced that Mr Little was moving to the engine shop in 2005, and that he was looking for additional staff to keep the dream alive.

Which has me thinking that out of frustration, and/or assistance from Mr Kruk, the 888 mob was introduced to the SBR opportunity they helped create... and whammo.. success for all...

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Techo
This is where the 'Team' of guys putting in long hours to be 'racers' now have work by the hour for a business profit.
This has been the begining of the end for alot of teams with staff getting cranky
It also takes one eye off your racing program, sounds easy to do these engine deals but in practise it has to be well organized.
One benifit is that you have control of your competitors engine supply, which did'nt really work out for the red team as they changed configrations & the old one was still better.
Lets hope it all works out OK, could this be the start of the ford teams co operating !

If this was SBR's first year of doing it, I may agree... but 2005 will be the 2nd year of supplying other people.

The reliability of the SBR engine was strong this year, as was the sheer grunt and driveability.

The thing that would have been VERY clever would have been for someone like Caltex to climb aboard the program as official oil supplier... then the Caltex love could be shared across the Orrcon & 888 cars as well...

... rather like elf did with Renault in F1...