IMSA 2022: Looking to the present?

[broadrun96]

And adding slower cars to the mix with basically the same level drivers? Seems like the LMP2 and 3 drivers have been better of late and far better than they were in the PC car that was unfortunately made a beast for them to drive fast.

But the LMPC cars do quite well with the tuning allowed in HSR and more than a few run often.

[NaBUru38]

IMSA insists on having too many classes.


Nobody cares about LMP3. Those entries should do LMP2 (if they can afford it) or GT Daytona.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

IMSA insists on having too many classes.


Nobody cares about LMP3. Those entries should do LMP2 (if they can afford it) or GT Daytona.

^
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Awesome comment

[Pandamasque]

In IMSA nobody cares about LMP2 either. Not since it was "diverged" from DPis. Those classes are not for the fans. They are there for paying participants and also to visually bolster shallow grids.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

In IMSA nobody cares about LMP2 either. Not since it was "diverged" from DPis. Those classes are not for the fans. They are there for paying participants and also to visually bolster shallow grids.

The great comments are piling up today. 100% agree.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

IMSA insists on having too many classes.


Nobody cares about LMP3. Those entries should do LMP2 (if they can afford it) or GT Daytona.

I think IMSA probably likes LMP3. It gets more cars on the grid, and entry fees. Gets people a less expensive foot in the door, and perhaps they move up in the future. It is no different than the GTD category, or the GTEAM in WEC.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

In IMSA nobody cares about LMP2 either. Not since it was "diverged" from DPis. Those classes are not for the fans. They are there for paying participants and also to visually bolster shallow grids.

Originally Posted by joeb

I think IMSA probably likes LMP3. It gets more cars on the grid, and entry fees. Gets people a less expensive foot in the door, and perhaps they move up in the future. It is no different than the GTD category, or the GTEAM in WEC.

Key points here. IMSA is a business. It's main saleable product is track time at key North American race tracks and endurance races. That's what they want to grow. More cars on track increases business for the series and numerous providers for the series. Get more premier providers/partners onboard because business is booming, and the series starts to looks more attractive to additional quality providers/partners. To us it looks like a pointless grid filler, to them it's a bottom line filler. Tell me you don't want a pointless bottom line filler for your own wallet.

Saying you hate a class, or assuming everyone also hates a class because you vehemently hate it and how could everyone else not hate it doesn't change why it's there.

It might sound like of course I'm being a troll is saying this, but I enjoy P3. I enjoy watching it (subjective, sure), and I'm glad the additional entries are paying for the things they're paying for. Makes Mondays a happier time knowing it was a busy weekend .

[Coach Ep]

I enjoy the P2 cars, they're great sounding, decently visually pleasing and - in the hands of pro drivers - plenty fast. P3 not so much but I don't mind them being part of the main series. Overall, the more cars, the merrier. I always like the variety of classes and cars in sportscar & gt racing, especially in endurance races. Gives me more to do as a marshal!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Key points here. IMSA is a business. It's main saleable product is track time at key North American race tracks and endurance races. That's what they want to grow. More cars on track increases business for the series and numerous providers for the series. Get more premier providers/partners onboard because business is booming, and the series starts to looks more attractive to additional quality providers/partners. To us it looks like a pointless grid filler, to them it's a bottom line filler. Tell me you don't want a pointless bottom line filler for your own wallet.

Saying you hate a class, or assuming everyone also hates a class because you vehemently hate it and how could everyone else not hate it doesn't change why it's there.

It might sound like of course I'm being a troll is saying this, but I enjoy P3. I enjoy watching it (subjective, sure), and I'm glad the additional entries are paying for the things they're paying for. Makes Mondays a happier time knowing it was a busy weekend .

How dare you point out the business might actually want to stick around. It's like they should limit it to ONLY the best cars and stop at 10.

LMP2 and LMP3 rarely get in the way, haven't been causing excessive cautions and bring VERY needed money and corporate eyeballs to the series. If you don't think that's important go watch the coverage and cars on track for SRO Americas.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

I enjoy the P2 cars, they're great sounding, decently visually pleasing and - in the hands of pro drivers - plenty fast. P3 not so much but I don't mind them being part of the main series. Overall, the more cars, the merrier. I always like the variety of classes and cars in sportscar & gt racing, especially in endurance races. Gives me more to do as a marshal!

Your post about marshalling made me think of next season when GTE cars will no longer be part of IMSA. This probably allows the LMP3 cars a nice spot in the order of classes. Having pace differences between classes usually allows for cleaner passing.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by joeb

Your post about marshalling made me think of next season when GTE cars will no longer be part of IMSA. This probably allows the LMP3 cars a nice spot in the order of classes. Having pace differences between classes usually allows for cleaner passing.

No matter for the pure GT fans like me, the sprint races to really look forward in 2022 are Long Beach (GTD has no P2 and P3 there to worry about), Lime Rock, and VIR.

[chernaudi]

Marshall Pruett reported or Racer Magazine's website this morning that, as of now, an Audi Sport backed factory LMDH program is very unlikely and basically dead unless something changes between now and the start of the 2023 IMSA season. Pruett also reported that customer teams, though, are still being actively pursued. It's also rumored that Fillipe Nasr is now an Audi Sport factory driver and signed on to be part of Audi Sport's ACO/FIA WEC and LM24 programs.


Though not confirmed, Pruett is possibly speculation that a squabble between Audi AG and Audi Sport in Germany vs Audi of America over funding for a factory IMSA program may be a root cause for the cancellation or delay in a NA factory program. Similar issues killed off full time Audi programs for IMSA with the ALMS after 2008.

[Pandamasque]

https://racer.com/2021/08/30/audi-dr...-lmdh-program/

I wonder if this is the thing that's "expected to happen, but not happening" which Graham Goodwin mentioned multiple times in the recent MP podcast.

Frankly, as long as there are customer Audis in IMSA, it's not the end of the world, in my view.

[broadrun96]

I'll go out on a limb and offer the costs were higher than they expected relative what Porsche pays Penske. Penske is a proven commodity but it's a team market now with multiple possible cars. Sounds like the asking price from teams interested was more than Audi is willing to spend for the team's experience at running a top car. But how many teams will experience in IMSA are left?

Penske-Porsche
AXR, Ganassi-Cadillac
MSR, WTR--Acura

I guess you could take a flyer with Andretti or Rahal but guessing both are putting max effort in to landing the BMW deal. Who's left? Core could do it but with their previous Porsche experience I'm guessing they wanted the big check and possibly a car for Braun and Bennett to run, and I can't blame them there.

[canaglia]

for 2023 IMSA I can count:

2xpenske porsche
2xganassi cadillac
1xAXR cadillac (eventually a second one not full season)
1xMSR acura
1xWTR acura

2x bmw



a recent rumor was about andretti close to confirm a 2023 lmdh program, maybe was in negotiation with audi before everything dropped down?
Even porsche IMSA program I can't say it's carved in stone atm, same about MSR with acura.
Maybe more teams like JDC will come in 2024 when more chassis will physicall be available for sell?

[broadrun96]

MSR has a multi-year contract for the program, was announced when the program debuted.

You don't sign Penske and then get out without paying through the nose. Porsche isn't cutting that program.

Andretti asking more than Audi wanted to fund and probably be paid to use a driver or two of their own makes sense. They want to be a Penske pay us to bring your cars wins but Penske is orders of magnitude better. But Andretti will have plenty of drivers to bring to the team, given their current liveries and the loss of DHL costing RHR his ride I'm guessing they wanted fully funded program from Audi and Audi wanted a few stickers and your sponsor as the main show.

Audi has almost fully rotated to the e-tron program with MLB. Red Sox have used Audi for HR sponsors for a few years, but all e-tron all the time now around the TV coverage and stadium. Hard to sell that as an e-tron, but I do like the 2 Audis I've seen and they are not silent when they jump off the line

[GriffM3]

Rahal Lettermen will run the BMW cars in 2022 in GTD pro with the new M4 GT3 and then move over to LMDH in 2023 with the LMDH cars.

[broadrun96]

Unless Andretti can offer them a better deal and build support for the LMDh, until we see BMW's announcement I won't buy my RLL BMW kit just yet.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by GriffM3

Rahal Lettermen will run the BMW cars in 2022 in GTD pro with the new M4 GT3 and then move over to LMDH in 2023 with the LMDH cars.

Source? Or just your own guess?

[broadrun96]

IMSA decided to double down and make sure the Glickenhaus can't run their car in the US in 2023.

***IMSA has updated its sporting regulations to reflect the definition of a manufacturer, which now states that the OEM must not only be recognized as an “IMSA Official Automotive Partner” but also have an “annual production of 2,500 or more vehicles for public consumption and public road use” in order to be eligible in the WeatherTech Championship.

From S365, sounds like confirming in the regs what they'd be telling people were the rules.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

IMSA decided to double down and make sure the Glickenhaus can't run their car in the US in 2023.

***IMSA has updated its sporting regulations to reflect the definition of a manufacturer, which now states that the OEM must not only be recognized as an “IMSA Official Automotive Partner” but also have an “annual production of 2,500 or more vehicles for public consumption and public road use” in order to be eligible in the WeatherTech Championship.

From S365, sounds like confirming in the regs what they'd be telling people were the rules.

Thats messed up. Two of my all time favorite cars in IMSA would not have been eligible under this. The Panoz and Lister Storm. Ironic that Panoz who founded the ALMS would have been locked out. This manufacturer "partnership" thing clearly is on the NASCAR side of the ALMS/Grand Am merger.

[chernaudi]

As much as I think the IMSA OEM rules are a BS money grab, they're not breaking Federal or Florida State laws, which Glickenhaus contends they may be contriving. Sadly, you can ask Francis Ferko and Jerry Carroll what happened when they went after NASCAR for Anti-Trust law violations and breach of implied contract.

[Pandamasque]

I may have mentioned before, but this should be christened the IMSA's "F*** Don Panoz rule". ALMS' motto was "For the fans", Weathertack's is "For the corporate".

[broadrun96]

I mean all you have to see was Panoz built a GT4 car and went to SRO to run it. They brought it back to back years to the Petit paddock but couldn't run it.

[chernaudi]

I guess I can understand the manufacturer entry fee, as IMSA wants to avoid the issues that the ACO had after Audi Sport and Porsche left LMP1. But at the same time, they're also (in an around-about way) committing one of the ACO's biggest sins during that period--not putting their money where their mouth is.


IE, it shouldn't just be the manufacturers or the teams job to promote the series. IMSA/NASCAR own the WSCS, they should also pull their weight with the marketing. Not going a full on Jim France with Grand Am and basically paying teams to run in the series, but they should do their share of the heavy lifting.


And of course, IMSA/NASCAR aren't the only ones guilty of this. Far from it. When Audi were around, they did a lot of promo for the ACO for basically free. When that dried up, the ACO were kinda screwed. And Panoz stopped putting a lot of his time, money and energy into IMSA when both OEMs started to flow into the ALMS in '06-'08, which coincided with LNT using a Panoz to win GT2 at LM in '06.


IE, just because you have OEMs or sponsors throwing money at your series doesn't mean you should back off. If anything, you should have a back up plan for when that money dries up. At least you won't get sucked down the hole that IMSA did after '08, and the ACO did after the VAG teams left.