[BTCC] Round 10, 21st Sept, Brands Hatch (Indy)

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

Mat Jackson, what a fantastic season whith his privateer BMW

Can I just say that I'm not for a moment begrudging Mat Jackson's win or indeed his and the team's performance all season, but just how privateer are they?

There was an interesting discussion about this on midweek motorsport (Radio Le Mans) last time and I got the distinct impression, some pundits do not fully buy the family run/small priviteer image. Apparently, its almost a works effort certainly more works than WSR's effort because the car is prepared in RBM's shop in Belgium. Can a true privateer operation really afford to do that was the question.

There was speculation (if I remember correctly) that RBM could run Andy Priaulx in a two car works team next season in the BTCC, whether Andy would want to run in the UK or not was another thing but apparently his paymasters (BMW UK) can decide they want him to. In which case, would he server links with BMW and go elsewhere to stay on the world stage?

[Sodemo]

I don't really think the rough and tumble nature of the BTCC is to Andy's liking...?

The driving standards in the WTCC are at times bad, but never as bad as the BTCC.

[Jon411]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Can I just say that I'm not for a moment begrudging Mat Jackson's win or indeed his and the team's performance all season, but just how privateer are they?

There was an interesting discussion about this on midweek motorsport (Radio Le Mans) last time and I got the distinct impression, some pundits do not fully buy the family run/small priviteer image. Apparently, its almost a works effort certainly more works than WSR's effort because the car is prepared in RBM's shop in Belgium. Can a true privateer operation really afford to do that was the question.

There was speculation (if I remember correctly) that RBM could run Andy Priaulx in a two car works team next season in the BTCC, whether Andy would want to run in the UK or not was another thing but apparently his paymasters (BMW UK) can decide they want him to. In which case, would he server links with BMW and go elsewhere to stay on the world stage?

As well as Jackson's car going to RBM quite a lot, there was a RBM engineer or 2 at at least some of the races and I also read that one of the RBM guys was the team manager or something and BMW UK were supplying hospitality (I don't know how much of that is true).

Don't get me wrong, Mat Jackson is obviously a great driver and its great the success they have had this year, but the continued line from them saying that they are a family run team hasn't convinced me all year. I

I'm with cg7aa - if WSR can't really afford to go testing as much as they would like etc, how can a smaller team afford to ship the car to Belgium and have support from RBM throughout the year, plus get hold of Andy Priaulx's car from 2007, whilst leaving the older car sitting in a garage somewhere unsold and things like carrying the efficient dynamics branding. Surely that could have been sold for advertising space?

I'm willing to be proved wrong - but its been mentioned in various places all year that it wasn't a total family run effort.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Jon411

how can a smaller team afford to ship the car to Belgium and have support from RBM throughout the year, plus get hold of Andy Priaulx's car from 2007, whilst leaving the older car sitting in a garage somewhere unsold and things like carrying the efficient dynamics branding. Surely that could have been sold for advertising space?

I think you've answered your own question. The team can probably afford all these thing because they are carrying efficient dynamics branding.

[stedevil]

I would like to also point out that it is relatively common that deals buying a 2nd hand car includes some support from the seller team, including during season presence of team crew to help out with setups. Other examples of this is eg Tommos last year Alfa that was racing in STCC this year and the BTCC Chevies that had assistance from the WTCC team the first year.

Also, the old car, maybe it's been stripped for parts to keep the current car running? So potentially not much money "lost" from not selling it.

[Craner Curves]

Yes that's common, but BMWDTUK (just to annoy those who despise acronynms ) have a vastly higher level of support than the likes of WSR who had a BMW engineer for 3 meetings last year and Robertshaw who had an RML engineer for a couple of meetings in 2008. We're talking full-time RBM input here.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Yes that's common, but BMWDTUK (just to annoy those who despise acronynms ) have a vastly higher level of support than the likes of WSR who had a BMW engineer for 3 meetings last year and Robertshaw who had an RML engineer for a couple of meetings in 2008. We're talking full-time RBM input here.

The very reason why Alan Gow should have insisted BMW UK were manufactuers as i fail to see how they can say they are independants.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Jon411

As well as Jackson's car going to RBM quite a lot, there was a RBM engineer or 2 at at least some of the races and I also read that one of the RBM guys was the team manager or something and BMW UK were supplying hospitality (I don't know how much of that is true).

The hospitality unit that Jackson was using this season was used last year as the office and spares truck for Formula BMW.

...and Mat Jackson's press releases are being written by the agency which handles all of BMW's sporting PR in the UK.

[kristof14]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

The very reason why Alan Gow should have insisted BMW UK were manufactuers as i fail to see how they can say they are independants.

If we want to argue that Mat Jackson should not be independant as he receives a lot of help from RBM then oculd we also not argue that Adam Jones shouldn't be as well as Team Air Cool are just a front for GR Asia, who were so good in WTCC they were banned from the independent competition?

[awrb]

Originally Posted by kristof14

If we want to argue that Mat Jackson should not be independant as he receives a lot of help from RBM then oculd we also not argue that Adam Jones shouldn't be as well as Team Air Cool are just a front for GR Asia, who were so good in WTCC they were banned from the independent competition?

But that made no sense anyway. GR Asia were simply better than everyone else, they didn't have an unfair advantage.

It would be like chucking Loeb out of the WRC, or Ferrari out of F1.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by kristof14

If we want to argue that Mat Jackson should not be independant as he receives a lot of help from RBM then oculd we also not argue that Adam Jones shouldn't be as well as Team Air Cool are just a front for GR Asia, who were so good in WTCC they were banned from the independent competition?

IIRC that was because of Tom Coronel.

[Bramzel]

It was indeed only Coronel who wasn't allowed to run for Indy anymore, Ceresoli and O'Brien though were allowed to be entered in the independents championship.

[cg7aa]

Can someone explain why the independents championship is scored differently and what the reason for this is please? Its somewhat odd that the person finishing second in the main championship finishes second in the independents standings to another independent driver who finished fourth in the main championship.

Thanks.

[kristof14]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Can someone explain why the independents championship is scored differently and what the reason for this is please? Its somewhat odd that the person finishing second in the main championship finishes second in the independents standings to another independent driver who finished fourth in the main championship.

Thanks.

I think the main reason is that in those races where Turkington and Jackson didn't finish in the regular championship points positions Turkington finished ahead of Jackson meaning he scored more independent points. Also any race that Jackson didn't finish and Turkington did finish, even when outside regular points positions, means he'll accumulate more independents points.

Also, if Turkington and Jackson were to finish 9th and 10th overall but were the highest placed independents Turkington would only score one point more than Jackson in the main championship but 3 more points than Jackson in the independents.