"Better than half the excrement they watch in Europe"

[Woolley]

It does seem especially difficult for Australians and Kiwis to make it over here. Courtney and Davidson particularly weren't able to make a good showing, but I'm not sure how much was finance and how much was finding their way around a different culture. In fact, I felt that Davidson was particularly disadvantaged and with no evidence to support my opinion, I'm sure he was a whole lot better than he was able to show. Webber had to fight too, but made a good showing in FRenault against a particularly well financed but under-talented Brit and had his reputation enhanced as a result. I long for the day when everyone can race equally and let's see who is really up to standard. In the absence of an antipodean presence at Le mans, Sandown may be as close as we get, on the grounds that Bathurst is too specialised. Yvan Muller is renowned as a very special race driver with stunning car control, but I felt his 500 drive showed him to be only as good as the locals, not outstandingly better. And it's much easier to drive a good race if you don't have the weight of the championship on your shoulders.

[racer69]

Skaife didn't seem to mind racing some of that **** when he has run in Europe

As he was talking about V8Supercars, he was comparing it to Touring Cars in Europe, nothing more, nothing less, not British club racing, not Formula 1........

Why he felt the need to say it, or whether it was a direct response to a question, who knows?

[doug05]

I have to agree with Woolley's comments, they are quite good. Just a question to those who have disagreed with Skaife's comment, is it simply because of a dislike for the guy which then tints your non-skaife coloured glasses, or would you actually prefer not to have V8's racing, and to just watch the Eurpoean touring car stuff???

[storyline]

doug05 - your reply implies that you only believe that there is V8 racing in this country - this is the major downside of this category - they would have you believe that they are the ONLY form of viable racing.

The problem is, and people like Skaife and others, never bother to look at the grass roots racing that is carried on around the country. There are some who DO get involved - which is good.

But to dismiss all other forms of racing, as Skaife appears to have done, as excrement is simply closing his eyes to what is actually going on around the place.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

I'd agree. The racing is better than all of DTM, BTCC, FIA GT and they're meant to be the top categories.

Is it ? I fail to see where there this idea of brilliant racing in v8's comes from, propaganda maybe ? V8's are loud, big cars and qualify close (they should though) but the 'racing' side of the category is lacking. For example Reverse Grids anyone.

BTCC uses reverse grids aswell, however those guys really have a go and dont have to be worried about be black flagged for sneezing, which happens in v8's.

DTM is the most pure (less contrived) in terms of entertainment and that helps with its racing.

Originally Posted by RotorFan

I think Skaife is right - but he could have chosen better words if he knew he'd be quoted.

That was the original intention of the thread, discussing the attitudes of those in V8s and Avesco in regard to other motorsport categories in Australia and Internationally.

Personally I think he is wrong, but thats not the point. It seems that these days Avesco is writing its press (hey whats new) but now drivers/teams are starting to believe it. There is a certain level of arrogance running around the in the category.

[mountainstar]

To expand on Skaife's comments, the australians have done a much better job of marketing their motorsport than the europeans(especially the brits). I think the brits still think its the 1950's and haven't really seized on the aspect that motorsports need to be dynamic and exciting to the public in order to generate the revenue required to properly support a professional racing class.

[peckstar]

Pewrsonally DRT i think your talking out your butt. you are well known for your vendetta agaisnt V8SA and really you add nothing new to your already weak arguments.

but thats just my opinion

i reckons skaife is right and i am not a skaife fan

[D.R.T.]

Peckstar aren't you known for your positive Avesco bias ?

Peckstar so you dont see an issue with a driver referring to other championships and the like as excrement.

[peckstar]

no problems at all.. i am also known for my anti mark skaife bias.

if they are , they are.

Call a spade a spade

Many of them are.

[Robert Ryan]

Peckstar so you dont see an issue with a driver referring to other championships and the like as excrement.

So he calls a spade a spade. Rather that , then a "Politically correct" statement.

[RotorFan]

Well we were talking about V8s. I know there are many other categories of racing in this country. I am more enthused about club cars (or improved production), commodore cup, production cars, HQ and truck racing than I am about V8s, but we weren't talking about racing in general in Australia.

I've only seen the bigger categories from Europe (BTCC, FIA GT, DTM etc) so I can only draw from that. Maybe there are better categories at lower level but we don't really have access to that.

You do get black flagged for sneezing in V8s but if you're talking about DTM - thats the other extreme. They barge past and ruin other peoples races and the commentators call it a clean pass - I suppose the officials think the same because they don't get penalised. I like to see a bit of that but its pretty blatant and unsportsman-like in DTM. Theres also a bit too much "comradery" within manufacturers, to put it one way.

I don't like the contrived-ness of reverse grids either, but I still think the racing is better in V8s than the other european categories I mentioned.

[racer69]

Has Skaife seen enough of touring car racing in Europe lately to judge?

Were there really any European journos around when AA heard that quote?

How are our cars comparable to anything in Europe when they are more NASCARs than anything else?


How would some of you feel if a European driver started rubbishing racing down here?

DRT - Only a certain level of arrogance in the series, there was only a certain level back in 1997........

[Robert Ryan]

How would some of you feel if a European driver started rubbishing racing down here?

Racer69 get off your high horse...if Mark feels that way he is entitled to his opinion.He is being pretty honest about what he thinks.

[pete55]

It's only Mark Skaife talking. You can take it with a grain of salt. He just likes hearing the sound of his own voice.

[The General]

Originally Posted by pete55

It's only Mark Skaife talking. You can take it with a grain of salt. He just likes hearing the sound of his own voice.

Sums up the mentality of the anti-skaife brigade, nothing to offer just a stupid non relevant comment.

[MRJUCY]

Does that mean the other half of the exrecment they watch is better then ours???

[Robert Ryan]

Does that mean the other half of the exrecment they watch is better then ours???

No they watch twice as much

[kmsport]

Maybe Skaife needs to study some statistics involving on track position changes (ie overtaking) in V8SC these days compared to numerous Series' overseas. Not flattering! To be honest...a hell of a lot of V8SC races have been ho-hum for "racing" action in the last 2-3 yrs....IMHO

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by The General

Sums up the mentality of the anti-skaife brigade, nothing to offer just a stupid non relevant comment.

With Skaifey making those kind of comments, I think the "anti-Skaife brigade" is about to get a whole lot of new members......worldwide!

[Grimace]

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

Typical Skaife comment. When he grows up and is allowed to run his own Team, his attitude may change. If I had paid $10mill. for a Team I'm not allowed to run, and the Sponsorship can be taken away at anytime, I'd have a pretty bad attitude as well.

[pete55]

Skaife is like a '"spoilt rich kid". He has better and more toys and feels he is better than everybody else. In reality it is quite different though. He is a big fish in a very small pond.

[Grimace]

Originally Posted by stmorri

With Skaifey making those kind of comments, I think the "anti-Skaife brigade" is about to get a whole lot of new members......worldwide!

I reckon you'd need the capacity of Telstra stadium for meetings

[Aarrgh8]

Originally Posted by pete55

Skaife is like a '"spoilt rich kid". He has better and more toys and feels he is better than everybody else. In reality it is quite different though. He is a big fish in a very small pond.

...and you're a moderator now? You really should develop a sense of ambivalence like GTR and the others. Until you can, you'll just be another poster like the rest of us.

10-tenths needs a moderator or two - but you're not cutting the mustard. Sorry. I know you mean well.

[pete55]

Perhaps you should take on the job seeing your such an expert.

[Aarrgh8]

No. I'm no expert. I don't even know what qualities you need to be an 'expert' in such a select category in such a select part of the internet as being a moderator on a UK forum on motorsport with an Australian section.

All I can say is that I've seen many forums (fora) in many categories of motorsport, with many moderators, and if you really want to take on the thankless job of moderating, you really need to hide your biases a bit better.