Ford and Motorsport... can they afford it?

**GTRMagic** · 24 Aug 2006, 12:42 (Ref:1690320)

Hmmm... not looking too good for the blue oval back in the motherland

Cactus financials..

billy bigtime · 24 Aug 2006, 13:15 (Ref:1690345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Hmmm... not looking too good for the blue oval back in the motherland

Cactus financials..

Have a look at GM's financials, that will scare the hell out of you. Ford made a profit last year, GM did not. The powder room at Toyota Australia still has them owning Holden within 2 years. I'm also told that sales of the VE are down 73% on conservative sales targets as of Tuesday evening. One would think the lights are burning brightly at Fishermens Bend tonight, but I don't know weather they can afford it.

Rombles1 · 24 Aug 2006, 13:18 (Ref:1690347)

I know I'll get flamed for daring to even think it, but with GM and Ford both looking dodgy, could a GM-Ford merger help their respective financial situations?

pete55 · 24 Aug 2006, 13:31 (Ref:1690353)

GMH in Australia are in a better situation than Ford Australia.

cavvy · 24 Aug 2006, 13:44 (Ref:1690358)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

GMH in Australia are in a better situation than Ford Australia.

Care to support this statement with some facts.

Rombles1 · 24 Aug 2006, 13:47 (Ref:1690359)

I would be surprised if the Australian situation raised much of a blip on the radar for either head office in the US.... it might be good to hear some good news from far-away lands occasionally, but I don't think we here will buy enough Commodores and Falcons to counteract GM's pension problems or whatever it is that is dragging Ford down....

Grimace · 24 Aug 2006, 14:00 (Ref:1690364)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rombles1

I know I'll get flamed for daring to even think it, but with GM and Ford both looking dodgy, could a GM-Ford merger help their respective financial situations?

Wash your mouth out

i would never wear RED

If VE fails to meet sales targets (with the fuel price situation), maybe the next Falcon model development might not continue as an all Australian project?!?!?

**GTRMagic** · 24 Aug 2006, 14:00 (Ref:1690366)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rombles1

I would be surprised if the Australian situation raised much of a blip on the radar for either head office in the US.... it might be good to hear some good news from far-away lands occasionally, but I don't think we here will buy enough Commodores and Falcons to counteract GM's pension problems or whatever it is that is dragging Ford down....

Except it may decide new model investment, and whether it is made here or in the US... just minor decisions like that

pete55 · 24 Aug 2006, 14:09 (Ref:1690711)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Except it may decide new model investment, and whether it is made here or in the US... just minor decisions like that

Bringing US designed models into Australia would be the end of Holden and Ford here. If you listen to what is being said by critics over in the good ol' USA, then they want the aussie designed cars over there.

Rombles1 · 24 Aug 2006, 14:15 (Ref:1690713)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

GMH in Australia are in a better situation than Ford Australia.

Sorry, I should have quoted this message in my earlier one about Australias relevance to GM and Ford in the US. What I was trying to suggest was that no matter how well either Holden or Ford Australia do, their/our contribution to digging the parent companies out of their holes would be negligible, just through the difference in scale. The success or otherwise of the local arms may contribute to any decisions made about future directions of those arms, but I think would be unlikely on their own to save the parents - they need to fix the US problems or die. (And if the answer to GM's problems lies in using Holden ideas and expertise to actually start building cars Americans want to drive again, I have no problem with that!)

And Grimace, trust me, I wouldn't wear blue either....

I do agree with Pete55 though.... even if just because Holden have MUCH better product!

**GTRMagic** · 24 Aug 2006, 14:21 (Ref:1690717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

Bringing US designed models into Australia would be the end of Holden and Ford here. If you listen to what is being said by critics over in the good ol' USA, then they want the aussie designed cars over there.

As opposed to the end of Ford over there? Which looks more likely as the days go past.........

zac510 · 24 Aug 2006, 15:27 (Ref:1690765)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

Bringing US designed models into Australia would be the end of Holden and Ford here.

They've been importing chassis, whole cars and rebadging from Europe, Korea and Japan for decades.. Who would really notice except a few enthusiasts?

Rombles, I think your theories sound reasonable but have you ever considered that Johnny H could buy the GMH arm. Sure wouldn't be cheap but once the blue collar low-interest rate wanting home owning conservative workers start to scream and shout and look for someone to blame, Howard might help for the 'good of the economy' or some junk like that.

mmciau · 24 Aug 2006, 20:34 (Ref:1691023)

I don't think JWH would care a hoot!

He "would take advice" from his cronies in ACCI and just wing it - "capitalism at it's best!!"

Then quietly confirm his parliamentary pension and gold card privileges!

There is a current report about falling Australian competitiveness on the airwaves today (25 August)

Mike

SRabbit · 24 Aug 2006, 21:20 (Ref:1691061)

I don't think going private would necessarily be the end of Ford - it worked for the Packer family.

If they shave off the dead wood in Jag etc and are able to make, and act, on decisions with what would seem like the speed of light compared to trying to do it with board members/shareholders it would revolutionise the company
( this is based on the MASSIVE assumption the remaining members of the Ford family actually know what they're doing !! )

marcus · 24 Aug 2006, 21:56 (Ref:1691084)

Ok well lets get back to Racing then

what does this do for Fords involvement in Motorsport ?

bazil · 24 Aug 2006, 23:16 (Ref:1691123)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

Ok well lets get back to Racing then

what does this do for Fords involvement in Motorsport ?

Do Ford contribute to Australian Motorsport???I was not aware of that

What number do you ring to get some cash??

**GTRMagic** · 24 Aug 2006, 23:23 (Ref:1691124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRabbit

I don't think going private would necessarily be the end of Ford - it worked for the Packer family.

If they shave off the dead wood in Jag etc and are able to make, and act, on decisions with what would seem like the speed of light compared to trying to do it with board members/shareholders it would revolutionise the company
( this is based on the MASSIVE assumption the remaining members of the Ford family actually know what they're doing !! )

But they are going private for less than the value of the KKR takeover of Coles.... chicken feed in the scheme of it.

The impact to motorsport shall be interesting, Ford competes in many avenues of the sport... factory rallying teams, NASCAR, V8Supercar, the naming rights sponsor to the Cosworth powerplant in ChampCar...

Some of these programs will have to go... the dollars arent there to keep spending at the same level... its simple maths... and part of the reason the F1program fell off the radar....

Locally, the BF MkII Falcon has been getting rave reviews against the Holden VE Commodore, especially in the area of fuel consumption..

Where is Jac Nasser when you need him? Arguably the cause of some (most?) of this excitement at Ford?

Problems like the ones at Huon and Ajax in recent times, and Ion before that, are not conducive to car makers staying here.. when they have lazy plants around the world not running 24/7....

**GTRMagic** · 24 Aug 2006, 23:23 (Ref:1691125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazil

Do Ford contribute to Australian Motorsport???I was not aware of that

What number do you ring to get some cash??

134WPS?

Silver GT · 24 Aug 2006, 23:32 (Ref:1691131)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavvy

Care to support this statement with some facts.

I'd like to see those facts as well

SRabbit · 24 Aug 2006, 23:39 (Ref:1691134)

Perhaps all the doom-day talk and written-down figures are a simple ploy by the Ford's to drive the share price down, they cut away some fat to help pay for it then buy it back for a bargain, and hey presto - 'nah just jokes we're all good!!'

They get a $13bn company back without really outlaying any cash and now have less areas of debt-attracting businesses (ie Jag etc) to spread the $13bn across, AND get to continue along in full control. Doesn't sound all bad to me!! Interesting they have mentioned the downturn in large vehicles - any mention of the mega-increase in their small car ranges at all? Of course not - that might instill hope in the shareholders

Wouldn't be the first time.....

cavvy · 25 Aug 2006, 01:56 (Ref:1691160)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRabbit

Perhaps all the doom-day talk and written-down figures are a simple ploy by the Ford's to drive the share price down, they cut away some fat to help pay for it then buy it back for a bargain, and hey presto - 'nah just jokes we're all good!!'

They get a $13bn company back without really outlaying any cash and now have less areas of debt-attracting businesses (ie Jag etc) to spread the $13bn across, AND get to continue along in full control. Doesn't sound all bad to me!! Interesting they have mentioned the downturn in large vehicles - any mention of the mega-increase in their small car ranges at all? Of course not - that might instill hope in the shareholders

Wouldn't be the first time.....

More Buffett than Rabbit !!!!

Buying or selling stock in Ford?

mountainstar · 25 Aug 2006, 05:15 (Ref:1691180)

My perspective from the american side of things is that:

1. Ford and GM made crappy products for years and eroded their market value. Now the quality is getting much better, but now that they have ruined their name, people aren't looking at their products(except for trucks of which plenty are still sold). They have to produce cars people want like the mustang and they have to get their name back.

2. Ford and GM have the same problem many governments have with social security and pensions: It's a ponzi scheme built on false financials. Past CEOs should be in jail, because essentially they sold both companies out to their own greed and the unions. They put in place pension and health care schemes that they knew would bankrupt the company at some point, but they were in it for short term gain. People now have the expectation that if they work for a company for 20 years that they are now entitled to 40 years of pension payments. Anyone with half a brain can figure that aint gonna work.

I watched the unions destroy the steel and coal industry in Pennsylvania with the same tactics of striking and whingeing. The wages, pensions and benefits became so unrealistically inflated that there was no way to stay in business. Same with these auto manufacturers.

3. One benefit Ford has is that at last look they have $23 billion in cash on the books. They are making good products like the mustang. I worked for Ford recently on a ride and drive and I mostly liked everything I drove. The quality and drivability was much improved over several years ago. The Volvos are really nice and seem to be doing well, as well as land rover.

4. GM I believe has suffered from too much corporate mentality and a lack of passion in it's designs. However they do seem to be bringing some better vehicles to market. I talked at length recently to someone in finance in GM in Detroit. He thinks things are turning around. GM has turned a profit this year and more people than expected took the lump sum payout which gave workers a cash sum in return for no more attachment to GM.

MOTORSPORTS: I think motorsports are vital to both brands and their return to the top. But stuff like F1 and Nascar are a waste. The cost/benefit ratio just isn't there. They need to be involved in production based racing whether rally, touring cars, off road racing, drag racing, etc. and they need to be racing what they sell. Suburu for instance, would be a non entity now if it wasn't for the long lasting WRC program.

xrystl · 25 Aug 2006, 07:40 (Ref:1691226)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rombles1

I know I'll get flamed for daring to even think it, but with GM and Ford both looking dodgy, could a GM-Ford merger help their respective financial situations?

Probably make it look twice as bad . GM shares are now "Junk bond status" with Ford not that far behind .

xrystl · 25 Aug 2006, 07:45 (Ref:1691228)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rombles1

I would be surprised if the Australian situation raised much of a blip on the radar for either head office in the US.... it might be good to hear some good news from far-away lands occasionally, but I don't think we here will buy enough Commodores and Falcons to counteract GM's pension problems or whatever it is that is dragging Ford down....

A total of one years production in Australia = a total of one days production in the US = It looks good from where we sit , however as you say "it's hardly a blip on the radar" .

pete55 · 25 Aug 2006, 11:43 (Ref:1691377)

Maybe TC will shortly have to start courting some other manufacturers. Not sure how receptive they would be though.

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