Nomex Underwear now Compulsary at ALL Irish events.

[Doc Hollywood]

Yep, you read it correctly.

According to the 2007 Motorsport Ireland yearbook under safety requirements ALL competitors in Racing, Rally, RallyCross and AutoCross must now wear a 3 layer suit AND a full set of Nomex underwear (Balaclava, long sleeve top, long johns and socks) to FIA 8856-2000 standard.

Up to the end of 2006 this was the standard for international events but now covers all events both national and international.

Just to be sure I rang Joe Shirley (Cheif Scrut for Mondello). He said that this is definitley the case and that this will be checked for compliance.

I'm all for safety, but this seems a bit over the top. It was always a 3 layer suit OR a 2 layer with undergear. This now means that we will have to wear at least 4 layers. Not to mention that the cheapest set of FIA approved undergear is going to cost around EUR150-200 in addition to a new suit if you were unlucky enough to have bought a 2 layer.

Originally Posted by Motorsport Ireland Yearbook 2007

23.1 Rallies, Rallycross Racing and Autocross.
National Events: FIA homologated Flame retardant
overalls, underwear, socks, boots, balaclava are
compulsory (for Rallies both crew members) with
gloves compulsory for drivers. Flame retardant
overalls must cover the arms to the wrists, the legs
to the ankles and the torso to the neck during the
competitive sections of the event.
Failure to wear gloves, a crash helmet, flame
retardant overalls, underwear, socks, boots,
balaclava and seat belts, properly fastened on the
arrival to start a stage or during a stage will carry
the penalty of exclusion. It is mandatory that FIA
approved clothing be used at all times.

[terence]

What price for life insurance!

[Roundy Mooney]

Doc Just to clarify something. You can wear 3 or 2 layer with underwear on national events. It is only compulsory on International rallies that you must wear 3 layer with underwear.

Which is actually where the stupid bit is as even the 2 layer suits are up to 8856-2000 standard which means they are just as good as the three layers.

Funnily enough it was Joe Sirley only two weeks ago who told everyone at RallyX open forum night that underwear was not going to be compulsory this year !!!

[ss_collins]

way way ott.

And people will no doubt (and have started) with the - how much do you value your life commnts - but to be honest they are all bull. The comment above - what price life insurance? - for me none I have no life insurance. I wear three layer nomex overalls, a decent full face helmet and a single or twin layer balaclava (depending on the weather) - thats enough. Fire injuries are pretty rare these days - what about the marshals - more likely to encounter fire I reckon - but they are in Proban mostly - in some cases very old proban. Should Marshals have to have overalls scrutineered, and have to wear three layers plus under wear - how much do you pay for your life insurance?

[Doc Hollywood]

Hi Roundy,

I hope your right! This rule was brought to my attention by Dermot Quigley and Alex Sinclair (who you'd expect to know these things!!!) I rang Joe Shirley to clarify it and he said 3-layer and undergear.

Even if the 2-layer are acceptable he was adamant that undergear was compulsary accross the board in all events. Which means that most drivers will now have to purchase it.

SS makes a good point about marshals probably needing it more!

[Draven]

To be clear, does this apply to all circuit racing?
Or is it just Rally, Rally X and Autocross.

I really hope it does not, at the very least I hope that nomex shorts and short sleeve t-shirt will be acceptable, the long johns thing would be a pain.
(I'm in formula Vee, I already have a 3-layer suit and a fireproof T-shirt )

[Jennifer_ni]

I was looking at the t-shirt and short idea but they arent fia from what i can see which the new rule says it has to be!

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Draven

To be clear, does this apply to all circuit racing?
Or is it just Rally, Rally X and Autocross.

I really hope it does not, at the very least I hope that nomex shorts and short sleeve t-shirt will be acceptable, the long johns thing would be a pain.
(I'm in formula Vee, I already have a 3-layer suit and a fireproof T-shirt )

This applies to racing, rallyx, rally and autocross.

All of the undergear must have a sew-on or embroidered patch with the FIA 8856-2000 standard. Same as the overalls. So far the only ones ive seen with that standard are polar neck long sleeve top, long johns and calf socks!

[midgetman]

Don't forget that approved underwear need not be Nomex. Some suppliers have a line in Kerpro which is a breathable Kermel & Proban mix with FIA 8856-2000 homologation. Quite a bit cheaper than Nomex, too. Search "Kerpro underwear" on Google but ignore the "Figleaves" and "Sexy2wear.co.uk" adverts!! Kerpro is GBP55 plus the VAT (under £65 all in), quite a bit cheaper than Nomex.

And yes, 8856-2000 specifies long sleeve/leg and polo neck.

[leonidas]

Thanks for the heads-up - was just about to get some new gear.

I do wonder if this is a bit OTT. I think there is a bigger danger: namely of a driver fainting at the wheel from high temperatures in summer, particularly in rallying. Didn't they have to relax the rules on the Acropolis or Cyprus a couple of years back because of extreme temperatures?

There's also a cost issue. The basic cost of a full basic suit and ancillaries is now well over the £700 mark (half the price of a car in some rallycross budget categories). The 17.5% VAT in the UK doesn't help - should we really have to pay VAT on safety equipment?

[Motormouth]

Just to clarify, this is a new Motorsport IRELAND regulation, yeah??? Whats the story in the Uk? Is 3 layer alone ok?
Is this finally an end to my funny T shirts?

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Motormouth

Just to clarify, this is a new Motorsport IRELAND regulation, yeah??? Whats the story in the Uk? Is 3 layer alone ok?
Is this finally an end to my funny T shirts?

Yep, Ireland are "leading the way" in fire safety. According to Dermot and Alex this is in response to "several" fire related injuries on rallies in the last couple of years.

The T-Shirts can stay! But you'll be awful hot with that on under your other 4 layers!

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally Posted by Doc Hollywood

Hi Roundy,

I hope your right! This rule was brought to my attention by Dermot Quigley and Alex Sinclair (who you'd expect to know these things!!!) I rang Joe Shirley to clarify it and he said 3-layer and undergear.

Even if the 2-layer are acceptable he was adamant that undergear was compulsary accross the board in all events. Which means that most drivers will now have to purchase it.

SS makes a good point about marshals probably needing it more!

Yes it will be underwear no matter what form of motorsport your involved in. If you look at the chart in the year book it makes it a bit clearer.

But as Said 2 layer is acceptable on Natiuonal events.

The Price issue is becoming a bit a joke but. But when everything has to be homologated then this is what is going to happen as the FIA want there slice of the cake. It is surprising to me that the competition authorities haven't looked at it already as it does appear to becoming a closed shop.

If you look at it by next year if Hans becomes compulsory on international events. Which is the word on the grape vine, then just to go navigating for your first time you will need.

Helmet with intercom & hans clips € 550
Hans €800
Suit 3 layer €550
Boots €120
Underwear € 150
Licence €70

Total €2240.00 (and they wonder why track days have taken off !!)

I'll tell you something but. Its a braver man than me that would ask some lads who is just after coming of a special stage to open up their hot and sweaty overalls and show the labels on there long johns, they may just get a large eyeful of beer belly !!

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally Posted by Doc Hollywood

Yep, Ireland are "leading the way" in fire safety. According to Dermot and Alex this is in response to "several" fire related injuries on rallies in the last couple of years.

The T-Shirts can stay! But you'll be awful hot with that on under your other 4 layers!

Nothing to do with the fairy liquid we all have to carry then

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Roundy Mooney

Nothing to do with the fairy liquid we all have to carry then

Don't mention the war!

If you want a really scarey word on the grape vine is that HANS may be made regulation by 2009 at national level aswell as international. It is mentioned in the yearbook for the first time this year as "highly recommended". It's a slippery slope guys! Don't get me wrong, I believe that HANS is the way to go, but at present it is honestly too expensive for most club racers.

I would imagine by the end of the decade at the latest we will all be wearing HANS. Word to the wise, if buying a helmet make sure it has the posts.

[midgetman]

Hey Roundy, steady on with some of your prices......I reckon on about 2/3rds of your costs, even including the carriage to Ireland.

The story in the UK is that only basic (ie Proban "upwards") suits are required for all motor sport except circuit racing, when FIA suits (and they can be the old Norme 86) are mandatory. There is no intention to change. Underwear etc are recommended.

HANS - copied from the FIA web site:

Future requirements concerning the obligatory use of head
restraints
Wearing a head restraint approved by the FIA will be mandatory
for all drivers and co-drivers in international events as follows:
- in events of the FIA World Cup for Cross-country Rallies:
seeded list from 1 January 2007; others from 1 January 2008;
- in all other FIA championships, trophies, cups and challenges:
from 1 January 2008
- in all events entered on the FIA International Sporting
Calendar: from 1 January 2009
Exceptionally, the wearing of an FIA-approved head restraint
system is:
a) recommended on board historic cars;
b) mandatory, in off-road, for FIA European Championship
events as follows:
- Division 1 (Rallycross): from 01.01.2009
- Division 1A (Rallycross): from 01.01.2010
- Division 2 (Rallycross): from 01.01.2010
- Division 3 (Autocross): from 01.01.2010;
c) not mandatory for the following categories of alternative
energy vehicles: I, III, IIIA, IV, V Electric Karts, VII and VIII;
d) recommended for alternative energy vehicles in categories
II, V Cars and VI with a technical passport issued before
01.01.2006.
For other cars in which for technical reasons it is impracticable to
fit the FIA approved head restraint, it will be possible to apply for
a waiver to the FIA Safety Commission.

Now it all depends on your ASN as to whether it's made mandatory at National level. I'd be amazed if the MSA brought it in, but on current performance the Irish ASN can't be far behind - best buy a helmet with posts and spread the cost.

Hope this helps

Max

[Motormouth]

Next thing they'll be making myself and Matt make wear Nomex in the commentary box!!!

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Hey Roundy, steady on with some of your prices......I reckon on about 2/3rds of your costs, even including the carriage to Ireland.

The story in the UK is that only basic (ie Proban "upwards") suits are required for all motor sport except circuit racing, when FIA suits (and they can be the old Norme 86) are mandatory. There is no intention to change. Underwear etc are recommended.

Prices are from demon tweeks catalogue and i know you will say they are expensive but alot of people use them. Just take helmet for Instance £360.00 for open face peltor with posts inc postage to Ireland.

Thats €360 x 1.56(which I checked on credit card only yesterday) = € 561.60

Carriage to Ireland has gone through the roof recentley.

Also 1986 standard is history in Ireland at the end of this year so there will be alot of race suits on ebay at the end of this year !!!

[EvilPumpkin]

just a quick comment on costs, what is the VAT in Ireland on this kit? Is it 21%?

[Doc Hollywood]

Yep, 21%

[terence]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

way way ott.

And people will no doubt (and have started) with the - how much do you value your life commnts - but to be honest they are all bull. The comment above - what price life insurance? - for me none I have no life insurance. I wear three layer nomex overalls, a decent full face helmet and a single or twin layer balaclava (depending on the weather) - thats enough. Fire injuries are pretty rare these days - what about the marshals - more likely to encounter fire I reckon - but they are in Proban mostly - in some cases very old proban. Should Marshals have to have overalls scrutineered, and have to wear three layers plus under wear - how much do you pay for your life insurance?

The point which has obviously been missed is that the overalls are great,but what if your underwear has nylon in it,that will still get extremely hot and should it stick to your skin,then you will realise what I mean!,It is of course your own choice.

[terence]

One comment"fire injuries are pretty rare these days",is your fire extinguisher empty?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Motormouth

Next thing they'll be making myself and Matt make wear Nomex in the commentary box!!!

I have heard you two do get fired up with heated discussions.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Roundy Mooney

Prices are from demon thieves catalogue and i know you will say they are expensive but alot of people use them. .........

'they are expensive'
However one has to assume that people who buy from that emporium can afford it - if they are on a tight budget they will shop around and buy from a reputable supplier with lower overheads (like Max) and save a pile of cash. If they cannot be bothered I would have to conclude they are either daft or very lazy, which of course they are fully entitled to be but it is not compulsory

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Hey Roundy, steady on with some of your prices......I reckon on about 2/3rds of your costs, even including the carriage to Ireland.

Max, why do they always see the expensive ones when they have to buy something?

But why is it always the other way when buying one?

Only joking guys.