Sir Lewis Hamilton is the GOAT

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Greem

For comparison we need the charitable accounts for every single F1 driver that has ever lived. Produce that, produce a forensic accountant, let's go for it.

I know he invites it sometimes but the micro analysis of everything Hamilton does really is tiresome. I genuinely can't think of a single former or current driver who gets the approbation he does for everything, inside and outside the car, from everywhere, all the time.

Yes, location checks out etc etc.

Absolutely agree. I'm not even a Lewis fan, but man he's hated for nothing isn't he.

I wonder what makes Lewis different to every other drivers in F1 history. I wonder.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Absolutely agree. I'm not even a Lewis fan, but man he's hated for nothing isn't he.

I wonder what makes Lewis different to every other drivers in F1 history. I wonder.

Gets grouchy on the radio. Nobody else does it.

Did you hear Kimi being grouchy on the radio just then? Hilarious! LEGEND.

[chunterer]

If one puts oneself on a pedestal and sometimes does or says things that courts attention (intentional or not) one is open to scrutiny.
It's the same for any celebrity in any sphere whether they, or we like it or not.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Absolutely agree. I'm not even a Lewis fan, but man he's hated for nothing isn't he.

I wonder what makes Lewis different to every other drivers in F1 history. I wonder.

He's from Stevenage.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Greem

For comparison we need the charitable accounts for every single F1 driver that has ever lived. Produce that, produce a forensic accountant, let's go for it.

I know he invites it sometimes but the micro analysis of everything Hamilton does really is tiresome. I genuinely can't think of a single former or current driver who gets the approbation he does for everything, inside and outside the car, from everywhere, all the time.

Yes, location checks out etc etc.

Totally agree. I came here for an interesting discussion about epoch defining drivers across the years and how Hamilton can be related to them, not this nonsense.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If one puts oneself on a pedestal and sometimes does or says things that courts attention (intentional or not) one is open to scrutiny.
It's the same for any celebrity in any sphere whether they, or we like it or not.

Doesn't address the issue of why only Lewis is scrutinised. Unless you're suggesting he's the only one who puts himself out there.

[Adam43]

Why he out there on a “pedestal”?

1. We wins lots of races
2. He is trying raise awareness on various topics including inequality and mental health.
3. He’s posted a photo of himself wearing some new clothes or his dog

3 is harmless but sometimes he looks silly, IMO
2 it’s a shame that people skip over what he’s trying to say and the main issue. You might think he’s misguided in how he goes about some of this, but you can’t fault the underlying intention.
1. You'd think that would be where we concentrate on 10-10ths

That 2 is lost reflects poorly on the wider world, that we fail at 1 says more about us than him.

[Akrapovic]

Just to add to Adams point, lets look at Senna.

1. Wins lots of races
2. Tried to raise awareness on various topics including inequality and poverty
3. Was always in the public eye

So why is we go as far as digging down into Lewis accounts to try and find fault?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Doesn't address the issue of why only Lewis is scrutinised. Unless you're suggesting he's the only one who puts himself out there.

He's not the only one though.

Vettel, Max, Bottas, Stroll, Perez, Albon etc have all been under the microscope for various reasons this year. It's part and parcel of life.

Some for reasons I agree with, some I don't.

[S griffin]

Of those, I think Stroll is probably the only one who gets roughly the same amount of stick as Hamilton

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

He's not the only one though.

Vettel, Max, Bottas, Stroll, Perez, Albon etc have all been under the microscope for various reasons this year. It's part and parcel of life.

Some for reasons I agree with, some I don't.

Ah yes, we can't move on this forum for people digging down into the financial workings of Alex Albon, and calling Max Verstappen a hypocrite for refusing to take on [social issue].

Seeing a lot of parallels here to the very cause that Lewis is talking about too. "It isn't just Lewis! It's others too!"

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Ah yes, we can't move on this forum for people digging down into the financial workings of Alex Albon, and calling Max Verstappen a hypocrite for refusing to take on [social issue].

Seeing a lot of parallels here to the very cause that Lewis is talking about too. "It isn't just Lewis! It's others too!"

Err??

I was talking about sports/celebs being under the microscope as it goes with the territory? I was not talking about a specific thing!

[Akrapovic]

And the rest of the grid (or any driver in F1 history) is under the same microscope as Lewis gets?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Doesn't address the issue of why only Lewis is scrutinised. Unless you're suggesting he's the only one who puts himself out there.

IMHO... He doesn't fit the classic mold of old school F1 champion. Or... he is just not like a fan's particular favorite champion. And there is nothing wrong with that from Lewis' perspective. He should be who he wants to be.

As to what doesn't match? Build a list of any number of infinite attributes. Sadly IMHO this also includes his skin color and sorry for calling that out, but I think people tiptoe around that.

My personal issues with him is that he is so damn good! And I don't particularly care for his fashion sense, but that is a minor thing.

One thing is for sure. I do expect that when he stops racing in F1, we will miss him. Queue up the "but Hamilton wasn't there" comments for post Lewis F1 champions (just like we do today for Schumacher, Senna, etc.)

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Sadly IMHO this also includes his skin color and sorry for calling that out, but I think people tiptoe around that.

we really do dont we?

Originally Posted by steve_r

What have the Romans ever done for us?

its amazing how much this still resonates. so insightful.

for sure we all (in this case all sports fans) have a tendency to do this. we tear down those we once held up while taking for granted and/or diminishing their accomplishments. we are an ungrateful lot.

cant blame the media for this but they do revel in feeding our desire for salacious headlines.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

IMHO... He doesn't fit the classic mold of old school F1 champion. Or... he is just not like a fan's particular favorite champion. And there is nothing wrong with that from Lewis' perspective. He should be who he wants to be.

As to what doesn't match? Build a list of any number of infinite attributes. Sadly IMHO this also includes his skin color and sorry for calling that out, but I think people tiptoe around that.

My personal issues with him is that he is so damn good! And I don't particularly care for his fashion sense, but that is a minor thing.

One thing is for sure. I do expect that when he stops racing in F1, we will miss him. Queue up the "but Hamilton wasn't there" comments for post Lewis F1 champions (just like we do today for Schumacher, Senna, etc.)

Richard

Yes, there have been quite a few champions in the past who have been criticised because they didn’t fit the mould of how a champion should be in some people’s eyes. It seems Hamilton though really is hard for some people to take seriously or perhaps respect for one reason or another

[Aysedasi]

But it isn't just being taken seriously. I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't under any circumstance call him a friend) who vilifies Hamilton at any and every opportunity. For anything - his stance on black issues, his clothes sense, his dog, his.....anything. He hates him with a vengeance that is seriously unhealthy. He plasters it all over FB and gets seriously unhappy every time Lewis wins. I have absolutely no doubt that he would be happy if Hamilton crashed and was injured and could never drive again. What is it that provokes such animosity? The guy I know is a bigot and has serious issues in relation to equality which also spills out into immigration. Is it that we just love to knock successful people down - or is it significantly because he is a very successful black man.....?

[S griffin]

I know, even if you are not his biggest fan, why get down over him winning something that is just a sport at the end of the day? Anyway, he doesn’t win every race and who knows how long he’s going on for? Will he retire before he gets dethroned? Will be fascinating to watch

[gert]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But it isn't just being taken seriously. I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't under any circumstance call him a friend) who vilifies Hamilton at any and every opportunity. For anything - his stance on black issues, his clothes sense, his dog, his.....anything. He hates him with a vengeance that is seriously unhealthy. He plasters it all over FB and gets seriously unhappy every time Lewis wins. I have absolutely no doubt that he would be happy if Hamilton crashed and was injured and could never drive again. What is it that provokes such animosity? The guy I know is a bigot and has serious issues in relation to equality which also spills out into immigration. Is it that we just love to knock successful people down - or is it significantly because he is a very successful black man.....?

That's weird.

There are racing drivers (F1 or other) that I don't like much, there are teams that I don't like much (F1 or other) and there soccer teams or coaches I don't like much. [etc ...]

Sometimes I get a guilty pleasure from seeing them lose, but I would never wish them injuries or otherwise.

It's just sports, and apart from my perception of said person or team, maybe they do a lot of good things too that I am unaware of.

[Aysedasi]

I agree Gert. I've never made a secret of the fact that I was a Senna fan, and during the rivalry with Prost I would laugh like a drain when Prost had a problem. But I would never have wished anything more than bad luck on him and of course these days, I appreciate just how important the rivalry actually was to Senna.

[gert]

Yeah, sometimes it's strange why you support someone and decide to be against someone else.
It's not always easy to explain why...


My favourite soccer team is easy: that's the one my father and I used to go to when I was a kid. The one I like least is the rival from the same town.
Not a surprise there, probably. [see town next to my country flag for clues ]


As for racing drivers: I am not a big fan of Hamilton nor Verstappen.
That has probably more to do with their character and they way they appear in public rather than their skill.
I have no problem to admit that they are both very good racing drivers.

I just don't really like them.

For Hamilton, that has nothing to do with his skin color. Probably more his off-track personality that doesn't fit with me.

And Verstappen: that has nothing to do with his nationality. Often they say Belgians don't like Dutch people and the other way around but that's not it.
There are a lot of Dutch sportsman that I do like.
I was rooting for Van der Poel (NL) and not Van Aert (B) last weekend [cycling, for those who do't know] and I am also a fan of Tom Dumoulin (also Dutch) [more cycling]

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But it isn't just being taken seriously. I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't under any circumstance call him a friend) who vilifies Hamilton at any and every opportunity. For anything - his stance on black issues, his clothes sense, his dog, his.....anything. He hates him with a vengeance that is seriously unhealthy. He plasters it all over FB and gets seriously unhappy every time Lewis wins. I have absolutely no doubt that he would be happy if Hamilton crashed and was injured and could never drive again. What is it that provokes such animosity? The guy I know is a bigot and has serious issues in relation to equality which also spills out into immigration. Is it that we just love to knock successful people down - or is it significantly because he is a very successful black man.....?

I think you're absolutely spot on with all of this post. The idea that others are held to the same standard as Lewis is ridiculous. Not one single person on this planet is even close to saying those things about Alex Albon, but with Lewis there are countless saying it.

And I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head with your closing line. It's because he's unusual in that he's black, and he acts it. He's proud of it, embraces it and that's not something we've seen in F1 before. And it makes some people very, very uncomfortable. And I know people will say it isn't that at all, but are you saying we can have a serious issue with racism in football, but in F1 it doesn't exist? We have 1 black driver who is scrutinised more than any others, and people are going to say that has nothing to do with racism? Whilst he takes the knee and people complain about? Why people want him to deal with ALL social issues, and go digging into his charity statements to find fault?

Like gert, I don't really like Lewis. But I'd never dream of tearing him apart like many do.

[E.B]

How much of it is "Tall Poppy Syndrome".... People tend to like to knock the big achievers. Im probably guilty of it myself. I was once a Schumacher fan, pre 1994 but when he started doing stuff like the Hill thing I actually burnt my hats shirts etc that I had of him, and have been pleased to see him DNF or whatever.... but was very upset at his post F1 injury and current predicament. I guess wishing someone a DNF is far from wishing anyone injury.

I admire Hamilton for his skills but dont like his off track antics.... I also dislike social media and have never had any facebook or instagram twitter etc accounts.

As for the black thing I have no issues with that...... I gre up in West Africa so lived amongst them for a decade or more living. amongst them so have no issues there. I laugh and joke now with black friends, and we call each other things which are not acceptable now.... but we know that we dont mean it as more than a joke and there is no spite or hate in what we say.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by E.B

How much of it is "Tall Poppy Syndrome".... People tend to like to knock the big achievers. Im probably guilty of it myself. I was once a Schumacher fan, pre 1994 but when he started doing stuff like the Hill thing I actually burnt my hats shirts etc that I had of him, and have been pleased to see him DNF or whatever.... but was very upset at his post F1 injury and current predicament. I guess wishing someone a DNF is far from wishing anyone injury.

I admire Hamilton for his skills but dont like his off track antics.... I also dislike social media and have never had any facebook or instagram twitter etc accounts.

As for the black thing I have no issues with that...... I gre up in West Africa so lived amongst them for a decade or more living. amongst them so have no issues there. I laugh and joke now with black friends, and we call each other things which are not acceptable now.... but we know that we dont mean it as more than a joke and there is no spite or hate in what we say.

I always find people criticising his ‘off track antics’ interesting.

Which part don’t you like?

He has a fashion line....so do other drivers
He makes music...so do other drivers
He likes collecting cars...so do other drivers
He likes travelling the world...so do other drivers

And yet none of them get criticism

This isn’t a pop at you, just I’ve never understood the criticism Hamilton gets for doing something he loves in his spare time

[Akrapovic]

James Hunt is a legend for his off track antics. Kimi did a snowmobile race in a gorrila suit - legend. Lando is constantly gaming on social media. Lewis wears clothes and it's an outrage.