This is true-honest!!!

**Snapper Baz** · 5 Apr 2004, 19:41 (Ref:931450)

Snet'(BRSCC) Sunday just gone, a few good grids and a few naff ones...2 drivers turn-up on the day (1st thing in the morning)having not got their entries off in time. The 2 drivers have car, race suit and money in hand to pay for their entries...now guess what? The 2 drivers were told "Sorry", but you didn't get your entries in in time so we cant except you for todays meeeting! Half the meeting ran with rubish grids (not the Ford ones)and here were 2 people willintg to bump up those grids and pay loads of money for the pleasure. Yes, they were wrong in not getting their entries off in time-but the BRSCC just turned down possibly £500 for what?...and you wonder why the BRSCC are in trouble!!!!

Sheila M · 5 Apr 2004, 19:49 (Ref:931456)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
Snet'(BRSCC) Sunday just gone, a few good grids and a few naff ones...2 drivers turn-up on the day (1st thing in the morning)having not got their entries off in time. The 2 drivers have car, race suit and money in hand to pay for their entries...now guess what? The 2 drivers were told "Sorry", but you didn't get your entries in in time so we cant except you for todays meeeting! Half the meeting ran with rubish grids (not the Ford ones)and here were 2 people willintg to bump up those grids and pay loads of money for the pleasure. Yes, they were wrong in not getting their entries off in time-but the BRSCC just turned down possibly £500 for what?...and you wonder why the BRSCC are in trouble!!!!

I know what you are saying Snapper but in this instance the Club were perfectly correct in refusing the entries. Rule B.10.3 of the Blue Book relating to Closing of Entries states:

"The date specified in the SRs for the closing of entries shall, in the case of International Events, not be less than seven days before the date of the event. For all other events, it shall not be less than three days before the date of the event. Exceptionally, for Clubsport events, Clubman Rallies, Trials, Autotests or Off-Road Events, the SRs may permit entries to be accepted up to one hour before the competition starts"

**Snapper Baz** · 5 Apr 2004, 20:01 (Ref:931465)

Sheila, point taken and rules are there for a purpose. BUT, when all talk these days is about poor entries and clubs suffering from possible lack of funds it just makes no sense whatsoever.

Sheila M · 5 Apr 2004, 20:12 (Ref:931477)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
Sheila, point taken and rules are there for a purpose. BUT, when all talk these days is about poor entries and clubs suffering from possible lack of funds it just makes no sense whatsoever.

I know what you mean Snapper. However, I have a sneaky feeling (and it is only a feeling, not to be taken as read) that in some exceptional circumstances (e.g. the one you describe) that the Clerk of the Course could seek permission from the MSA Steward to allow the late entries.

The alternative would have been for the two drivers to say their applications had been posted at Christmas and must be lost in the mail!

Not something I would recommend though!

johnw · 6 Apr 2004, 02:14 (Ref:931732)

I guess that it is probably linked to insurance. The three days would allow the entry list to be communicated to the MSA Insurers. Can't see how they could handle it on the day.
Shame though!

EvilPumpkin · 6 Apr 2004, 07:22 (Ref:931894)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there also the possibility that should either of these late entries have actually won, the other drivers could then protest and have them disqualified? If that is the case, then would it not be in their best interests not to allow them enter as they'd simply be wasting their money?

Ian Fisher · 6 Apr 2004, 07:32 (Ref:931905)

They may well have legitimate reasons, but why didn't they enter earlier?

Planning to do the event isn't a spur of the moment decision. They took the time to get the car ready, bring all the equipment etc. Why not fill in the form and post it?

I think it is a dangerous precedent to allow this 'turn up and race' mentalility. What if we all waited to see what the weather was going to do / see if I fancy it on the day?.

Also, there is a lot of talk about putting a better show for spectators. No chance of these entries being in the programme. Also, what about people trying to administer the meeting. It's a hard enough job on race day, without running round after avoidable distractions.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider turning up on the day, but maybe thats just me.

goforit500 · 6 Apr 2004, 07:46 (Ref:931914)

Difficult one...

I've been in the position where I wasn't sure if the car would be ready and therefore delayed entering an event. The entry secretaries in these cases have always accepted a phone call & faxed entry a day or three before, provided there was room.

I agree that turning up on the day and hoping to get a race is a bit stupid (Were they first timers ??) but untill an equitable refund policy exists, people will hold out until the last minute to enter - Pure economics.

Ian Sowman · 6 Apr 2004, 08:01 (Ref:931929)

On this subject, I believe that New Era ran a 'Run What Ya Brung' bike meeting at Mallory on Sunday. I think the idea was that you turned up on the day, and then the organisers split all the bikes into different races and away they went - so they seem to be able to do it.

No idea how the meeting went though...

Ian Fisher · 6 Apr 2004, 08:12 (Ref:931935)

I suspect that Mallory on a Monday is slightly cheaper to hire than Snetterton on a Sunday though.

Goforit - Can't you get a refund by confirming withdrawal up to the Wednesday before the meeting? If so, is this unreasonable?

Its easy to knock the BRSCC at present, but I think its in all our interests to work together to improve things. I don't think turning up on the day is particularly helpful.

ss_collins · 6 Apr 2004, 10:22 (Ref:932047)

I've had a sprint entry accepted on the day - but the not the vehicle.... still sprinitng a transit was a silly idea.

Gnomex · 6 Apr 2004, 10:54 (Ref:932083)

ss collins - not so silly perhaps? Did you ever see a Land Rover being sprinted? I seem to recall there was one at Lydden last year.

Hog · 6 Apr 2004, 11:35 (Ref:932132)

Time to stop smoking those mushrooms Gnomex........

**Tim Falce** · 6 Apr 2004, 11:53 (Ref:932140)

The BARC seem to be able to ask for entries on the day for races so why can't the BRSCC. It just sounds like Jobsworths gone silly to me.
Yes there was a Land Rover sprinted at Lydden last year and apparently it put in a respectable time.
Gnomex, I want some of what you smoke

listernoble · 6 Apr 2004, 12:01 (Ref:932150)

I think it all boils down to MSA competitor insurance cover ,because once you are on the entrants list you can change vehicle or share drive on day of the event .
Lister

Keith Wheeler · 6 Apr 2004, 12:24 (Ref:932187)

Surely anyone who signs on correctly on the day is covered by the insurance, regardless of when their entry was received?
If late-entry competitors can't be accepted on the day, does this mean that a marshal who turns up on the day also would not be accepted because they were not covered by the marshals insurance (if there is any)?

Piglet · 6 Apr 2004, 12:45 (Ref:932212)

Insurance is calculated on the entries on the day - I think the organising clubs have to give an indication of numbers when they apply for their permits but exact figures are calculated from the numbers actually signed on.

The problem is that the MSA say that this can't be done, Sheila has quoted the reg above. This means that if a competitor is allowed to enter on the day and wins taking points that would have gone to another competitor - the decision to let the late competitor enter can be challeneged. Don't say that it won't happen because it can and it will and it has - I know of one co-ordinator who got bitten badly by this situation.

I appreciate that there are reasons why a competitor enters late and I think many secretaries would be willing to accept a faxed entry closer to the event start - perhaps even the day before. Turning up at 7am on a saturday morning when the secretary is trying to sign on a day's worth of drivers and officials and dealing with amendments to drivers and cars etc., puts the secretary in an impossible position.

Ian Fisher · 6 Apr 2004, 12:58 (Ref:932231)

Well put across Piglet. The consensus seems to be that Clubs are too inflexible in this respect, which I personally disagree with. Putting the boot on the other foot, how many of us would be seriously hacked off if officials were allowed to turn up on the day, and we ended up with a cancelled meeting because there were no scrutineers / marchalls / CotC?

In a time where entries are critical, and races will be merged or cancelled, I do not believe that this is in any way a workable or acceptable solution - what if we all did it - the meeting would be cancelled beforehand!

Getting racecars ready is a meticulous (and time-consming) process. Yes its frustrating waiting for a part to arrive with a deadline looming, but we all make decisions based on the best information available to us at the time - there's always the next / another round to enter....

**Tim Falce** · 6 Apr 2004, 14:45 (Ref:932367)

Quote:

Originally posted by that plonker falcemob
The BARC seem to be able to ask for entries on the day for races so why can't the BRSCC. It just sounds like Jobsworths gone silly to me.

I retract my statement, I agree with what Ian and Piglet say.

OK so I was wrong

Ian Fisher · 6 Apr 2004, 15:02 (Ref:932379)

Hi Tim,

Long time no hear - what Championship you racing in this year?

**Tim Falce** · 6 Apr 2004, 15:15 (Ref:932391)

Hi Ian
I am not realy doing anything in particular. I will just pick some races I want to do. Mainly the Jaguar Enthusiasts club Millers oils series, Sports Racing and GTs plus some BARC Southern Saloon and sports races.
Will you be out in the Alfa this year?

Dave Brand · 6 Apr 2004, 15:23 (Ref:932400)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
I think the idea was that you turned up on the day, and then the organisers split all the bikes into different races and away they went - so they seem to be able to do it.

The fact that they only ran seven ten-lappers suggests that they weren't oversubscribed - a normal club bike meeting will have twenty-plus races. Bikes were lumped together in two different classes, not an ideal situation.

**Snapper Baz** · 6 Apr 2004, 17:03 (Ref:932494)

Good to see so many answers...I do not have the full facts on why these 2 drivers apparently arrived without entering...so there seems to be a lesson to be learned for all drivers...if you havn't entered then get your paper and a cuppa tea and stay in bed! I still think its a bit silly though!!

Ian Fisher · 7 Apr 2004, 07:12 (Ref:933066)

Tim,

Yeah, gonna do a few Alfa Races, starting with Silverstone International on 17th April. Tested there last week, but it wasn't too meaningful as there were about half-dozen Group C prototypes, and loads of British GT cars on track at the same time. It gets a bit surreal when the ex-Martin Brundle Silk Cut Jag flashes past at a zillion miles an hour...speed differential a bit scary. Still, I think I did a reasonable job of playing 'tail-gunner'....

Might do one or two BARC salonns rounds (is that the championship Uncle Eric is doing?)

Sheila M · 7 Apr 2004, 08:59 (Ref:933155)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gnomex
ss collins - not so silly perhaps? Did you ever see a Land Rover being sprinted? I seem to recall there was one at Lydden last year.

We had TWO at Curborough not so many years ago - they damned quick as well!

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