Group 5 BMW 320's.

[ian beckett]

The car Braun is driving is that used by Markus Hottinger in 1978. During the '79 season it was also driven by Michael Krankenberg/Albrecht Krebs and at the final race by Franz Grassl.

[kurtiejjj]

Driftwood, until now I haven't found any clue in my german 1978 magazines for the car your restoring. The magazine tend to concentrate on the top half of the field (logically of course). But I will keep browsing.

By the way what engines did GS-tuning use? Schnitzer based their engines on the 1502 series if I'm right. And heidegger used their F2 engines, which were said to be the most powerful in the field??

[driftwood]

1977 warsteiner car was GS tuning owned car Jorg Obermoser told me he rented the car in 78 fruit of loom sponsoered teh car for Hottinger to drive
this car is now reputed to be in a private collection

then we get this anomoly in the car being built from bmw works of cheever crashed in 77?? the parts where fitted to a new chassis and built up this info is according to Ian Beckett ( need to re read his earlier posting to see where he gets this info form) so far all i have is 1 foto of the car racing in 79? in a bright dayglo orange colour and this colour is evidenced on the 2 doors under 3 other coats of paint
sadly the shell was sand blasted many years ago and repainted
there appears tobe avoid in the car owners dates from this period until 1981 when kenneth Lim races the car in 1000 km silvertsone event

so any fotos and info is appreciated to create the chain of events but i think we will also need telephone numbers to speak with previous owners mechanics preperation garages

I think there where around 20 Gp 5 BMW cars racing around this time some will be crashed some will go off to Mountain races so later years the number of cars racing will drop off

keep the info coming guys as i want to start strip rebuild and paint the car ( 1st job!! ) may still plump for Gold warsteiner livery as it looks good but i know purists will scream its not correct but if the original warsteiner car is now blue fruit loom livery and in a collection it will be " ok" ? !!!!!!!!

[driftwood]

Ian Beckett said earlierFischer's car was self built using the remains of one of the Junior Team cars,the one crashed by Eddie Cheever at the opening round of the '77 DRM at Zolder.I have been following the Group 5 320 since its first race and sadly this is one of the cars with little information available about it.I have virtually all the race reports of the DRM series from German magazines of the day,I also speak some German and I have come up with very little and have not been able to track down Herr Fischer

Im assuming the car raced with BMW M12 engine with Fischer
later the car raced with Schnitzer engines probably fitted in Scandanavia
t is my plan to fit M12 unless you find other info to contest !!

[Alex E]

Driftwood,
it is always possible to see what engine the car is using, if exhaust exits on drivers side it is M12 if on the other side then it is a Schnitzer engine.
Alex e

[Jan E-28]

Any stores/privates still selling bodyparts?
Or have production forms?

[Alex E]

Jan E 28,
what exactly are you looking for ?
Alex

[Jan E-28]

Mainly fenders and frontspoiler/plate.
I hope to find some parts for sale, so I dont have to produse myself.

[Jan E-28]

Hmmm, noe edit?

GS Tuning`s style (Warsteiner) is of most interest. But any will do.

[Alex E]

I will be able to help you with all of that style, including rear wing / bootlid. It will take some weeks though. Where are you located ?
Alex

[Jan E-28]

See PM

[kurtiejjj]

Well driftwood, I have found some 1978 results for you, Fischer finished 14th in the championship. With a 4th place at 'Flugplatz Mainz-Finthen', two 6th places and at kassel-calden and the GP Deutschland support race. And a 7th place at the Avus ring in Berlin. I have found no photos sadly, but you should ask well-knwown photographer Ferdi Kräling, he has a website and is bound to have some photos. If you're having trouble with the german language, give me a shout I will help you.

[driftwood]

thanks
ive googled and sent him an email in english

[kurtiejjj]

Driftwood make sure you used this email address: info@kraelingbildagentur.de

Because I think the one from the site which is on top at google.com doesn't work (barchetta.cc)

[driftwood]

yes i found that address on his main website

[Zep]

So I quess this is the ex-Wiik Schnitzer Turbo?
http://www.coys.co.uk/auctions/lot.p...af503b19cc47a4

[kurtiejjj]

Interesting story Coys wrote about the rodenstock car, but as determined on this topic not really its genuine history; "..1977 by Schnitzer as the gold 'Warsteiner' car, driven by Jorg Obermoser..." how is that possible as Obermoser's car was the GS-tuning car? And then in 1979 becoming a Schnitzer car again.

[driftwood]

nothing unusual here with auction house descriptions
basically any old **** will do so long as you can drag buyers to the auction room to buy!!
believe auction description at your peril!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kurtiejjj]

One of the golden rules for car auctions seems to be then; always research for yourself then!

Driftwood I have finally managed to get a photo of your Fischer car, I hope you don't have it yet.




Again, image far too large; see FAQs:-

http://tentenths.com/forum/faq.php?f...q_faq_post_pic

[driftwood]

thanks for foto
this is the only foto have of the car
would be great to find some more

[ian beckett]

Hello everyone,this is also the only picture I have ever had of the Fischer car,it comes from an article which focused on the companies who were responsible for painting the then current crop of cars running in the DRM and other series of the day.I found this site yesterday which may be of interest... www.ditech-produktion.de They are a company in Germany who specialise in slot car bodies but their boss is also a Group 5 fan.At the moment some of the cars featured are not up and running but the 320 and the 320 flach(lowline) are.Enjoy and Happy Christmas to you all.Ian.

[ian beckett]

As a small note ,the air dam on the car is still in Junior Team colours from 1977,the Fischer car being based on the wreck of Cheevers car from the '77 Zolder race.

[kurtiejjj]

I noticed the cheever junior colours as well. I am wondering in what extent parts of this car were used by Fischer? The whole frontal area on the Cheever car is totaly crashed.

I want that BT55 model from the Ditech model site, but it doesn't have any suspension, I would have to produce that myself...

[kurtiejjj]

Am I right in saying:


This was Chatfield's Cheever 'junior team' # E21-R1-12 car?

And this one, the HAT #E21-R1-7 car, but with the front spoiler from the junior team car? :

[Alex E]

Kurt,
I am pretty sure both of these pioctures are of the HAT car. The bodywork / colour was changed quite often. I can check some pictures.

Regarding the Fischer car, I think he must have used the suspension mounts that are weded to the body from the damaged car. As it was the same as on factory cars but the bodyshell in general was very different & probably constructed from a new series bodyshell. Also a lot of the bolt on parts, pedal box, steering column, roll cage, etc....were all original motorsport parts. As was the suspension, brakes, etc....but I suppose you could buy these off the shelf at BMW, assuming you could afford it ! Probably the reason the parts were taken from the crashed car in the first place. As Cheevers car had not even completed one race the parts were probably in very good condition.
Regarding the `Warsteiner` conection with the other `Rodenstock` Schnitzer car now in France, I think the confusion arrises from the fact that after Schnitzer sold the car to Krebs he was sponsored by Warsteiner & the car was in similar gold livery to the Obermoser car.

alex