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Old 27 May 2019, 09:33 (Ref:3906280)   #51
Jerico
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Jerico should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sunday's press conference was so much better than what was dished up on Saturday night. I hope the same three muppets don't get on the podium together again. Ten minutes of your life you'll never get back. Scott telling tall stories & looking very uncomfortable, Davy trying to be funny and talking rubbish, Chaz had way better things to do at home by the sound of it. If I was his team manager I would have told him maybe he should stay home next round. They get the wrong guys together and it's just waste of time.
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Old 28 May 2019, 02:13 (Ref:3906434)   #52
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I still can't believe Coulthard got penalised.

1. We've almost never seen penalties for inter-team contact.
2. Surely if you go around the outside and turn in, it is your responsibility to not hit the car you are passing

Am I wrong?
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Old 28 May 2019, 03:43 (Ref:3906441)   #53
Compromised
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Not wrong. Scott tried a low percentage move and good on him for going for it, but... when it goes wrong surely the blame lays with him? Or better yet, racing incident?
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Old 28 May 2019, 09:35 (Ref:3906469)   #54
Jerico
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It was a racing incident. Scott had hardly been on the racing line for most of the opening lap, and had already picked up two spots. Then trying a third pass so early in the lap with cold tyres was pushing his luck. Seeing it was FC he would have thought here's an easy pass, expecting FC to part the red sea for him. He expected people to be nice and let him on to the racing line for the first time in the race. Would love to have seen what penalty Chaz would have got if he'd punted Scott off at turn nine. Scott blocked him hard, Chaz locked the front right if I remember rightly.

Scott felt he had rights to the corner, his corner he said. Scott never took any responsibility in any of the interviews I saw. seemed more than happy for FC to take all the blame.
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Old 29 May 2019, 03:08 (Ref:3906648)   #55
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Average Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
I still can't believe Coulthard got penalised.

1. We've almost never seen penalties for inter-team contact.
2. Surely if you go around the outside and turn in, it is your responsibility to not hit the car you are passing

Am I wrong?
No you're not wrong.

Would have tested out Bairdo had Scott clunked into someone other than Fabs and run them off. Davey for example. Or better still JW. That would have started World War III.

Redresses are dumb. Scott ought to know. He got tangled up in a big one at Bathurst a few years ago.
What penalty would Scott have got had he stayed in the lead after the re-join?
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Old 29 May 2019, 03:20 (Ref:3906650)   #56
Compromised
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What penalty would Scott have got had he stayed in the lead after the re-join?
Interesting question. Can't exactly move him back to third...time penalty doesn't seem appropriate...drive through too harsh...

I feel like fabs penalty was given (at least partly) to justify letting Scott go. If Scott hadn't (illegally) redressed, stayed out in front as you said, would fabs have even been penalized?
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Old 29 May 2019, 13:00 (Ref:3906721)   #57
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Rewrite the rejoin rules. GREAT idea !
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Old 29 May 2019, 13:12 (Ref:3906724)   #58
Umai Naa
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If teams and drivers stopped taking the mickey, we wouldn't need so many rule adjustments.
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Old 29 May 2019, 22:24 (Ref:3906846)   #59
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If teams and drivers stopped taking the mickey, we wouldn't need so many rule adjustments.
If race control took a more passive approach, as they did across the sport for the first 100 years of motor racing none of this nonsense would be required.

The ability to review every incident in detail and apportion blame has not benefited the sport at all.

And this is compounded by a penalty system that lacks clarity, is opaque to the keen motor sport follower, let alone the casual viewer and is applied inconsistently within a single race let alone across an entire season.

Race control should limited penalties to clear breaches of safety (eg speeding in pit lane or jumped starts) and not try to apply a penalty system that treats motor sport as some kind of ball sport where penalties can be apportioned should competitors come into contact.

Motor sport does not need referees or umpires to provide a safe and enjoyable sport for competitors, spectators and TV viewers.
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Old 30 May 2019, 00:26 (Ref:3906858)   #60
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Rewrite the rejoin rules. GREAT idea !
FWIW - any instruction provided at a race meeting becomes a rule for that meeting.

The controversy, as I understand it, has been answered by clarification of the instruction (a rule) regarding leaving the circuit at T5 and rejoining - these instructions were provided as part of the drivers briefing notes.

What was instructed was fine.

Where Scott rejoined was fine.

For me the real controversy in this has been that Rule 3.3.2 in Schedule B Code of Driving Conduct was seemingly ignored.

In providing an instruction (a rule), unless you specifically reference other rules that are to be replaced by it, all rules are in effect.

The rule is clear that in rejoining the circuit you can't gain an advantage. It doesn't say "you can't gain a position".

I believe to have complied with both Rules, Scott needed to rejoin exactly where he did but then fall back to a position immediately in front of Fabian, which is where he was when he left the circuit.

It is important to read 3.3.2 in its entirety, accepting that it is in effect if you leave the track "for any reason" - which includes being punted.

Let's suppose I'm wrong, and the ruling that Scott's rejoin/redress was fine, if I was DJRTP I'd be asking why Fabian received a penalty, as the result from the contact didn't impact Scott - but it did Fabian who fell to 17th(?). Had Scott rejoined and dropped to 16th, the penalty for Fabian would have been justified.
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Old 30 May 2019, 00:39 (Ref:3906860)   #61
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Originally Posted by chavez View Post
If race control took a more passive approach, as they did across the sport for the first 100 years of motor racing none of this nonsense would be required.

The ability to review every incident in detail and apportion blame has not benefited the sport at all.

And this is compounded by a penalty system that lacks clarity, is opaque to the keen motor sport follower, let alone the casual viewer and is applied inconsistently within a single race let alone across an entire season.

Race control should limited penalties to clear breaches of safety (eg speeding in pit lane or jumped starts) and not try to apply a penalty system that treats motor sport as some kind of ball sport where penalties can be apportioned should competitors come into contact.

Motor sport does not need referees or umpires to provide a safe and enjoyable sport for competitors, spectators and TV viewers.

I'd love to see this for say 5 or 6 rounds and see where we are, and what the racing looks like by that last round.
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Old 30 May 2019, 02:49 (Ref:3906869)   #62
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I'd love to see this for say 5 or 6 rounds and see where we are, and what the racing looks like by that last round.
The square ups would be amazing to watch, especially if you were out of a deal for next year.
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Old 30 May 2019, 04:58 (Ref:3906873)   #63
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The square ups would be amazing to watch, especially if you were out of a deal for next year.
Like Crompton on Steven Richards.
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Old 30 May 2019, 12:49 (Ref:3906955)   #64
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The rule is clear that in rejoining the circuit you can't gain an advantage. It doesn't say "you can't gain a position".
This is a concept which I dislike. At a British circuit with tarmac run-off where cars often run wide we're often asked if the driver gained an advantage. to which I want to reply "Well, he left the circuit and isn't in the wall or gravel or bouncing across rough wet grass, so effectively, yes, he did." More to the point he didn't suffer any disadvantage, and if you go off track, you should.

Maybe motorsport as a whole needs to advocate that if you leave the circuit then you drop to the back of everyone on the same lap as you, or perhaps a mandatory drive through? It's a plague and I hate it.
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Old 30 May 2019, 23:00 (Ref:3907070)   #65
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This is a concept which I dislike. At a British circuit with tarmac run-off where cars often run wide we're often asked if the driver gained an advantage. to which I want to reply "Well, he left the circuit and isn't in the wall or gravel or bouncing across rough wet grass, so effectively, yes, he did." More to the point he didn't suffer any disadvantage, and if you go off track, you should.

Maybe motorsport as a whole needs to advocate that if you leave the circuit then you drop to the back of everyone on the same lap as you, or perhaps a mandatory drive through? It's a plague and I hate it.
Is Herr Tilke to blame for this creeping in?
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Old 1 Jun 2019, 13:24 (Ref:3907268)   #66
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This is a concept which I dislike. At a British circuit with tarmac run-off where cars often run wide we're often asked if the driver gained an advantage. to which I want to reply "Well, he left the circuit and isn't in the wall or gravel or bouncing across rough wet grass, so effectively, yes, he did." More to the point he didn't suffer any disadvantage, and if you go off track, you should.

Maybe motorsport as a whole needs to advocate that if you leave the circuit then you drop to the back of everyone on the same lap as you, or perhaps a mandatory drive through? It's a plague and I hate it.
I agree. The concept of motor racing (as in general driving) is to remain on the bitumen. Too often now drivers are using 'run off' areas to advantage and without consequence. You don't see too many drivers using the run off area at Reid Park - McPhillamy at Bathurst do you? It's one thing to have an area so that a small mistake doesn't out you in a barrier but its gotten out of hand and drivers just see it as an opportunity to blend the circuit to how it suits them.
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Old 1 Jun 2019, 22:02 (Ref:3907419)   #67
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Is Herr Tilke to blame for this creeping in?
Partly for sure.

I'd say subpar education and the *******ization of the English language are also to blame - advantage has a very clear definition. It doesn't mean you gain a position (although that does seem to be the contemporary definition).

I'm lucky enough to watch a fair bit of motorsport and this issue isn't confined to Supercars by any means.
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Old 3 Jun 2019, 12:05 (Ref:3907687)   #68
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advantage has a very clear definition.
But it's also comparative. Advantage compared with running wide on a surface which isn't the same as the race track? Then it's a yes...
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Old 8 Jun 2019, 04:20 (Ref:3908575)   #69
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My take on the rejoin issue is if you fall off the sweeper for any reason from Flag Point 5 onwards you must rejoin PRIOR to Flag Point 7 (aka The Tank), this eliminates the head on issue McLaughlin mentioned.

They could also put a tyre wall in to block the turn 8 short cut similar to the one before turn 3 at Sandown to stop the off at 1 rejoin at 3 short cuts there.
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