Kamikaze - Page 3

climb · 31 May 2004, 07:30 (Ref:988889)

What makes me mad about tha accident is that Sato was faster than Rubens, and he had still so many laps to go!
Just on the following lap he aoculd have approached the same turn being closer to RB, inthat case he could have passed him easily and safely for both.

Armco Bender · 31 May 2004, 07:42 (Ref:988899)

Quote:

Its been pointed out that the use of the word "kamikaze" may be inaccurate and have an emotional impact on some posters.

Kamikaze (from Kami - "god" and kaze - "wind") means 'divine wind' in Japanese. It refers to the typhoon which saved Japan from a Mongol invasion fleet in 1281.

Blue · 31 May 2004, 09:17 (Ref:988981)

I was very very disappointed by Sato. He made a move to Barrichello too abruptly. It was so fast that Barrichello did not realize Sato moving to inside. It was Sato' mistake. I was even more dissapointed by his post race comments. He sounded he had nothing to do with the engine blow up. He said the engine would give up sooner or later even without the incident. But, I think the engine failure was triggered by 4th pit-stops to change the nose wing. He was not just unlucky this time. He should have at least admitted his mistake. Button said about conserving the engine at post race interviews. I think he is suggesting that Sato should do so to make the engine last the race distance sometime especially after unscheduled pit stops.

deeks6 · 31 May 2004, 09:40 (Ref:989003)

Don't laugh ... he's a future WDC. I said at the start of the year, he'd be with Bunson or beating him mid-season and get faster as he matures. He's still doing that but he has the raw talent AND he has a go - what more do you want?
That move on RB was a "bit" ambitious but, then again, JV got away with exactly the same thing at Jerez some time back...

climb · 31 May 2004, 09:47 (Ref:989010)

He may be a future WDC; but this time he made a disappointing (and a bit troublesome) mistake.

**garcon** · 31 May 2004, 09:50 (Ref:989013)

So... Sato's impossible lunge at Rubens was "a bit ambitious", but he's a future WDC. Whereas JPM's slight error in out-braking himself into turn 1 is yet more reason for him to get out cos he's not good enough for F1.

Hmmm...

Gt_R · 31 May 2004, 10:32 (Ref:989062)

I don't think it's "a bit" ambitious...It's quite a lot.

I think Sato had demonstrated something important to sceptics... This Jap guy is bloody fast and well deserve his seat in BAR. So many people questioned his ability, but quite flatly he answered them today regarding his pace. And that, well done to him!

But that move showed his over-eagerness to impress, and his inexperience + hotheaded nature. The figures are all adding up in his favour. We have a lot of laps left to run, and BAR with the new tires + Sato's pace definitely would be quite quicker than Rubens.

Hence, his move is uncalled for. I understand some people who are quite keen to tag him a "racer"...but that doesn't excuse poor judgement. It's just a bad judgement, he made a move from too far back, and RB is just taking a normal approach only to be hit by Sato. There's no way Sato would have succeeded..it's too late. And i feel sorry for him that he lost the chance to add a good overtaking move to cap off a wonderful race weekend performance. He failed to impress people that he could make a good move stick.

But Sato's a racer..he doesn't shy away from racing, and that's really good. He'd shown in Bahrain..so he's a man to watch!

Anyway garcon, if you ask me, both JPM and Sato made silly error and caused uncalled for accidents...

And that IF they keep up such a habit, they won't be WDC. A pity because they have the raw potential to succeed..just need a shine

Logrence · 31 May 2004, 10:39 (Ref:989068)

But wasn't Senna involved in an uncalled-for accident and won a championship?

**Adam43** · 31 May 2004, 10:52 (Ref:989080)

On the subject of being kinder on your engine. It is possible. Of course it is a lesser effect that in the old days, but you can 'hurt' your engine more than others. I don't think any driver has a style that is over aggressive for F1 nowadays and if they are getting more problems then it is just exaggerating an inherent reliability problem.

Splatz mentioned Michael's driving style. Maybe this is worse on an engine (and of course he seems to carry more revs than Rubens everywhere

). However the Ferrari is practically bullet proof, so can take it.

frederick also mentioned 'luck'. In a dismissive way. Well there are several contributing factors to whether an engine will blow up. You can put these into several categories. It is a combination of the driver's kindness to the engine (his style if you like), random manufacturing tolerances in engine build (quite close) and just general situation (sometimes you get that piece of paper in your radiator intake!). One can be a attributed to the driver and he will push the engine more than another driver. The others could be classed as 'luck'.

The trouble with discussing this is that it is a combination of all these things and it is difficult to separate them from the final outcome. I don't think you can say that it is all down to 'luck' or that it is all down to the 'driver'. (mod note: notice I don't say it is stupid or belittle others for ignorance, because that would be stupid and ignorant!

)

In the Honda case, the engine isn't bullet proof as it should be. Until it is then driver input is more of an issue. However as we have such few races it is difficult to see a decent set of statistics develop that can, with any confidence, show a trend of one driver over another. Flip a coin a small number of times, it isn't that unlikely to get heads each time - does that mean you are better at throwing heads than tails?

Basically what I am saying is that drivers do play a part, 'luck' (or probability) does play a part and it is difficult to separate these to factors.

Sato san · 31 May 2004, 11:30 (Ref:989132)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R
I understand some people who are quite keen to tag him a "racer"...but that doesn't excuse poor judgement.

Including his team boss it appears :

BAR boss David Richards, who earlier this season said Takuma was 'overdriving,' branded Sato a 'hero. That's the stuff racing drivers should be made of.

Sato san · 31 May 2004, 11:36 (Ref:989137)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Basically what I am saying is that drivers do play a part, 'luck' (or probability) does play a part and it is difficult to separate these to factors.

I agree with that Adam ...

There are so many factors here...that i think its just a bit rich that Sato gets the finger pointed at him for his engine blow up too....There are so many factors..( as you say , luck , probabilty etc etc ) ..that to imply that his engine went as a direct fault of the driver is probally a silly and very unproven thing to say ..

**Peter Mallett** · 31 May 2004, 13:04 (Ref:989223)

Don't think anybody was pointing a finger at him. I think I posed the questionto see if people thought the driver could influence the engine and therefore in this case did he contribute?

It seems that the general consensus is that he may have had an input to the detonation.

As to whether he is a racer or not. It is clear that he is beginning to get his talent to match his speed. And he stated that he likes this circuit so it was his weekend but he spoiled it by taking a big risk when it wasn't necessary.

Kicking-back · 31 May 2004, 13:45 (Ref:989259)

I recall Michael Schumacher having a lot of crashes in his early days, and he ended up doing alright.

BootsOntheSide · 31 May 2004, 14:11 (Ref:989282)

One thing people haven't mentioned here is the first-lap incident with Trulli which cost them both time and places. It appeared as if Sato made a late-braking mvoe that didn't work that time either. Two silly mistakes int eh same race isn't very good, and there's no way I could give him Driver of the Day as a result, which is a shame because he was doing a really good job for much of the afternoon, and was easily the fastest Michelin runner.

NiceGuyEddie · 31 May 2004, 15:42 (Ref:989341)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
One thing people haven't mentioned here is the first-lap incident with Trulli which cost them both time and places. It appeared as if Sato made a late-braking mvoe that didn't work that time either. Two silly mistakes int eh same race isn't very good, and there's no way I could give him Driver of the Day as a result, which is a shame because he was doing a really good job for much of the afternoon, and was easily the fastest Michelin runner.

Sato lost out at the start to Trulli and Raikkonen, yet came back out second again after the first corner. That was racing. Somewhere off camera something happened which put him behind Raikkonen again. I don't know what happened and I don't know if anybody saw it. I didn't see anything with Trulli that cost Sato places.

On a general note:

There have been weekends in which Sato looked better than Jenson. Bahrain, Nurburgring, Spain.

His pointtotal is truly not representative for his skill. That and his attacking drivingstyle reminds me of Jean Alesi, and how could love racing without admiring Jean? Well anyway, fact is that Sato needs to soften his edges. He is truly quick (no one seems to be debating that) but his judgement on the edge is rather...well...too instinctive.

Jordi · 31 May 2004, 15:55 (Ref:989354)

You know what, this pass reminded me of MS-JV Jerez 1997, because Sato came from a long way back. However kudos to Taku for at least trying it, was the only other interesting thing apart from the 1st corner...

BSchneiderFan · 31 May 2004, 16:11 (Ref:989370)

Jesus, it was a misjudgement which cost him some time, that's all. Rubens' race wasn't compromised, no it was victimless. But these things happen.

On the broader front, I agree that Sato is ferociously talented, and has certainly improved since his stint at Jordan. Future WDC? Who can say, so much luck is involved in winning the title. People probably looked at Alesi or Coulthard or Barrichello or Herbert and thought "Future WDC", but the cards never fell that way (well, not yet...). But Sato is improving all the time, and could win a race this year. Certainly the best prospect to come out of Japan since Hoshino.

race aficionado · 31 May 2004, 16:59 (Ref:989407)

If you wish to check out Sato's European GP adventures, go here:

http://homepage.mac.com/emeseditoria...Theater88.html

banzai sato

http://homepage.mac.com/emeseditoria...Theater89.html

sato/rb from top view

http://homepage.mac.com/emeseditoria...Theater90.html

Rubens on Sato

http://homepage.mac.com/emeseditoria...Theater91.html

sato booom

freud · 31 May 2004, 17:08 (Ref:989412)

Sato has a lot of heart.. quite 'rare' in the world of formula-one these days. Imho we should appreciate that he tried, and also his engine blow-up 'most probably' didnt have anything to do with the incident.

No doubt, he is a good prospect for f1 and hopefully we will see him mature with time.

Super Tourer · 31 May 2004, 19:37 (Ref:989528)

I like Sato!

He shows real spirit, maybe he is wild but he is a racer and more experience will reduce the errors while keeping the 'racer' in him. IMO, and as freud says, too many drivers are too happy to sit back and let the team do the work around the stops.

Sato's a trier, we need more of him and less.......

Kicking-back · 31 May 2004, 19:42 (Ref:989536)

As Gilles Villeneuve once said - "It's easier to tidy up speed than speed up tidiness".

And can we stop these references to "kamikaze" or "banzai"? People wouldn't use these terms about any other driver.

Knowlesy · 31 May 2004, 19:58 (Ref:989555)

Apart from that, it's just inappropriate.

hamsmith · 31 May 2004, 20:28 (Ref:989587)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back

And can we stop these references to "kamikaze" or "banzai"? People wouldn't use these terms about any other driver.

I can see your point on the word Kamikaze but banzai is used by journos and presenters all the time about all drivers.

Tweed · 31 May 2004, 20:46 (Ref:989605)

right, back to this engine thing........

doesn't anyone remember that Button had a few problems with his BMW engines failing more than Ralf's in 2000 and Patrick Head said it was because Jenson's style was to slow down using the gears aswell as the brakes, thereby stressing the engine more, so all this rubbish about Sato contributing to his own engine problems is totally redundant!

**Adam43** · 31 May 2004, 21:59 (Ref:989673)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
And can we stop these references to "kamikaze" or "banzai"? People wouldn't use these terms about any other driver.

Its not a massive problem unless we keep going on about it.

Peter has explained his use of it and I see nothing wrong with it. It would totally have not been a problem if people had discussed the content of the actual thread anyway.

And, yes, I get the irony of posting a post complaining about posting posts about this.