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Old 8 Feb 2018, 09:54 (Ref:3799505)   #5416
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Originally Posted by Bentley03 View Post
For some of us, it is not just about close racing. The relentless performance balancing to artificially equalise the players actually detracts from our enjoyment, because the car's the star, not the teams, drivers and strategists. It negates the advantage of a constructor who, put simply, does a better job within a given rule set. LMP1 is the only class where there is at least some freedom and diversity of solutions available to designers and constructors, where they have the opportunity to build a car which gives them an advantage, without seeing their work come to nothing, because of retrospective performance balancing.

Horses for courses, but for me, I would sacrifice watching close racing in heavily BOP'd classes/formulas/series for witnessing a dominant display from a car which is just better than the others in it's class, because the designers/constructor/engineers have done a better job.
+1
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 12:05 (Ref:3799543)   #5417
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And that's how things used to be I'd argue. But nowadays everyone wants results, wants them fast, and they don't care how it comes about as long as they get the return on investment they want.

And even then, there's no guarantees on that.
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 12:12 (Ref:3799545)   #5418
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Originally Posted by Bentley03 View Post
For some of us, it is not just about close racing. The relentless performance balancing to artificially equalise the players actually detracts from our enjoyment, because the car's the star, not the teams, drivers and strategists. It negates the advantage of a constructor who, put simply, does a better job within a given rule set. LMP1 is the only class where there is at least some freedom and diversity of solutions available to designers and constructors, where they have the opportunity to build a car which gives them an advantage, without seeing their work come to nothing, because of retrospective performance balancing.

Horses for courses, but for me, I would sacrifice watching close racing in heavily BOP'd classes/formulas/series for witnessing a dominant display from a car which is just better than the others in it's class, because the designers/constructor/engineers have done a better job.
+2

As for LMP2 and LMP3, although they haven't fallen senseless like GTE and DPi with round by round political performance balancing, they too are nevertheless victims of over standardization and "teams and drivers are the stars" lunacy. Add into that the "everyone's a winner" concept of pro-am.

LMP1 is the last haven for realness and (not fabricated) variety, with tech impact. I fear that will be taken away with GTP/DPi 2.0, at least for OEMs
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 14:02 (Ref:3799578)   #5419
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Listening to yesterdays MWM because of them discussing (previewing) the entry lists, Goodwin says you can re-homologate nonhybrid LMP1 car/bodywork for every single race if you want?
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 16:45 (Ref:3799636)   #5420
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Listening to yesterdays MWM because of them discussing (previewing) the entry lists, Goodwin says you can re-homologate nonhybrid LMP1 car/bodywork for every single race if you want?
Wasn't there a rule or at least talk about a new manufacturer entering being allowed to update their aero package until it was competitive with the established teams? Maybe they held onto that for the privateers.
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 16:56 (Ref:3799638)   #5421
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Wasn't there a rule or at least talk about a new manufacturer entering being allowed to update their aero package until it was competitive with the established teams? Maybe they held onto that for the privateers.
Or

Established Factory OEM - 1
Debuting Factory OEM - What you say
Privateers - Unlimited

?
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 21:16 (Ref:3799705)   #5422
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Or

Established Factory OEM - 1
Debuting Factory OEM - What you say
Privateers - Unlimited

?
Here are the technical regulations for hybrids: https://www.fia.com/file/65128/downl...token=CIQj3YIc
The limit of the number of aerokits per season is stated in Appendix M.
In the technical regulations for non-hybrids (https://www.fia.com/file/65126/downl...token=Fd_IoZGk) there is no Appendix M and I couldn't find another limitation of available aero kits.
So it seems exactly like you said
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 01:28 (Ref:3799751)   #5423
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I think there is still a massive elephant in the room. Some manufacturers want Hybrids, other manufacturers do not want hybrids.

Also will this GTP style LMP cannibalize the GTE class (in favor of GT3)? Mclaren haven't developed a 720S GTE, because they have interest in LMP1 now.

Ferrari, Aston, BMW, Porsche!. Who wouldn't try to build a "GTP" style LMP in a much more cost effective top class? Sounds like it comes at the expense of GTE.
Will that category go away in favor of GT3?
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 11:37 (Ref:3799857)   #5424
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I think there is still a massive elephant in the room. Some manufacturers want Hybrids, other manufacturers do not want hybrids.
Well, the upcoming WEC season should be very educational about coming up with possible ways to address that.
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Old 10 Feb 2018, 12:36 (Ref:3800274)   #5425
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Also will this GTP style LMP cannibalize the GTE class (in favor of GT3)? Mclaren haven't developed a 720S GTE, because they have interest in LMP1 now.
GTE will still be much cheaper (well unless they go full in DPi route which would be absolute nightmare) and GT3 is still illegal from 24 hours, so they're not going to disappear suddenly
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Old 26 Feb 2018, 19:37 (Ref:3804140)   #5426
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https://www.autosport.com/imsa/news/...l--castroneves

"I don't think LMP1 is going to last for long. I hope LMP2 will become LMP1, it would be better for everyone. It's the situation like Champ Car and IRL.
What are we doing here? Why don't we just get one great series, the best from Europe, the best from America and let's make it one thing?

Because not everyone wants to settle for performance balanced camouflaged spec cars. Maybe Helio does as he's raced them all his life, in series where the "drivers are the stars", but he's not everyone.

It's also great that it automatically needs to be LMP1 that's killed off, not DPi, because that's the side he's on. "LMP2 is better for everyone"... right

I also don't get the Champcar reference, ACO and IMSA were never the same entity in the first place. And it was IMSA that decided to ditch the existing common platform in favor of something else, not the ACO

edit: If a mod could move this to the LMP Future regulations thread, thank you

Last edited by Bentley03; 26 Feb 2018 at 21:19. Reason: Done! :)
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Old 27 Feb 2018, 04:49 (Ref:3804189)   #5427
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https://www.autosport.com/imsa/news/...l--castroneves

"I don't think LMP1 is going to last for long. I hope LMP2 will become LMP1, it would be better for everyone. It's the situation like Champ Car and IRL.
What are we doing here? Why don't we just get one great series, the best from Europe, the best from America and let's make it one thing?

Because not everyone wants to settle for performance balanced camouflaged spec cars. Maybe Helio does as he's raced them all his life, in series where the "drivers are the stars", but he's not everyone.

It's also great that it automatically needs to be LMP1 that's killed off, not DPi, because that's the side he's on. "LMP2 is better for everyone"... right

I also don't get the Champcar reference, ACO and IMSA were never the same entity in the first place. And it was IMSA that decided to ditch the existing common platform in favor of something else, not the ACO

edit: If a mod could move this to the LMP Future regulations thread, thank you
Or maybe it's the fact there's currently 4 OEM's with another 2 coming in DPi, and only one extremely shaky one in P1?
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Old 27 Feb 2018, 11:19 (Ref:3804254)   #5428
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I also don't get the Champcar reference, ACO and IMSA were never the same entity in the first place. And it was IMSA that decided to ditch the existing common platform in favor of something else, not the ACO
Not a perfect analogy by any means, but the cult-like reverence of one particular race, to the detriment of all others, probably seems awfully familiar to him.
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Old 27 Feb 2018, 13:21 (Ref:3804282)   #5429
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Not a perfect analogy by any means, but the cult-like reverence of one particular race, to the detriment of all others, probably seems awfully familiar to him.
True, but it's not like the series he's racing right now doesn't have it's own more-important-than-anything-else (or so they claim) event/events as well.

Anyway, if P1 is so very weak as he seems to claim it is (even though there are as many P1s as there are DPis circulating) then he might as well ask Roger to turn up with his bare Oreca P2 at Le Mans and try to win it regardless... nothing stopping them, unlike there is people stopping P1s from entering IMSA. If the state of P1 is supposedly so crap, they will surely be in contention anyway? Isn't that the kind of stuff people like Zak Brown say...

Remember that it was Penske that wanted to run P1 in the States anyway, but he wasn't allowed to and had to settle for less... and "Acura" settled for DPi rebranding & slapping their engine into stock Oreca after HPD were rejected to run their own self built chassis again, in the spec galore that is P2 now

Last edited by Chiana; 27 Feb 2018 at 13:44.
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Old 27 Feb 2018, 13:41 (Ref:3804289)   #5430
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True, but it's not like the series he's racing right now doesn't have it's own more-important-than-anything-else (or so they claim) event/events as well.

Anyway, if P1 is so very weak as he seems to claim it is (even though there are as many P1s as there are DPis circulating) then he might as well ask Roger to turn up with his bare Oreca P2 at Le Mans and try to win it regardless... nothing stopping them, unlike there is people stopping P1s from entering IMSA. If the state of P1 is supposedly so crap, they will surely be in contention anyway? Isn't that the kind of stuff people like Zak Brown say...

Remember that it was Penske that wanted to run P1 in the States anyway, but he wasn't allowed to and had to settle for less
Just out of curiosity, where did you read/hear/saw this?
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