White line rules in F1?

[JohnD]

So far this year, there is no sign that the white line rules newly enforced by the MSA are to be applied in F1. Cars regularly put both tyres right over the white line marking the edge of the track, a way that would surely require either a black flag or a visit to the Clerk after the race and disqualification.

Perhaps the British GP should mark the kerbs as was done in Bahrain. At corners and areas where the drivers were likely to go wide, the "white line" was widened to many feet across, with crosshatched whites lines between as on many public UK roads, indicating 'only to be entered in an emergency'.

As overcooking a corner or needing a quicker lap time must be an "emergency", is that the plan?
John

[Matt]

That's because MSA =/= FiA.

[TrapezeArtist]

I've no idea how it is working out at national level (early days, presumably) but I think a white line rule is unworkable in F1. Unfortunately.

As everyone routinely drives on the kerbs and generally treats them as a part of the track, I would just get rid of kerbs altogether. Track, then grass, then whatever form of run-off is deemed best.

[Richard C]

Are you talking all wheels off, or just any wheel that is off? Regardless, I think this has been beaten to death on this forum. I generally am of the opinion that they are too lax in F1, but I think a classic example of how difficult it is to have a black/white rule, is the first turn at Spa on lap #1. Penalize via stewards decision anyone who goes wide?

I think that solutions can be potentially be found for specific tracks that have sections that have this issue. Solutions that cause natural time penalties, or other methods of negative reinforcement that don't require steward intervention.

Richard

[Sodemo]

They could just put gravel and grass back where it should be...

[JohnD]

Reviewing the advice from the MSA at http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/m...ack_limits.pdf

I see that the cross hatches, apparently outside the white lines that mark the edge of the road are part of the white lines! Picture A shows this.

So that's alright then.
JOhn

[Greem]

Er, no it doesn't. It shows a painted kerb.

Regardless; MSA rules only apply at races run to MSA rules.

[JohnD]

Greem,
You're not clear, please explain.
John

[Greem]

The rule is clear (MSA Rule): track limits include the white line and any painted kerb outside that line. That's it. Hatched areas, large bits of green paint, blue & white sponsor markings are *not* the track.

But as it doesn't apply to F1 it's a moot point.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They could just put gravel and grass back where it should be...

Amen brother.

[JohnD]

But Greem.
Please look at the MSA advice I linked to above. Picture A shows a car with two wheels clearly on the hatched area, marked with a green tick - "Acceptable" - , whereas the car in Pic B has its wheels beyond the hatching and is marked with a red cross - "Not Acceptable". There are other examples, inc. a pic of two cars, one "Acceptable" the other not.

As you're a veteran marshal, if I put two wheels on the hatched area, please don't report me!
John

[Greem]

That's not hatched; it's a kerb. I think we have different understandings of the term "hatched" here

[Adam43]

Two wheels on the kerb is OK. The hatched area in A is a kerb. Like in E.

Originally Posted by from your link

‘a driver will be judged to have left the track if any wheel of the car either goes beyond the outer edge of any kerb or goes beyond the white line where there is no kerb’

[Greem]

Maybe it's the draughtsman in me, but a kerb isn't hatched. It's blocked out. Hatching is diagonal.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by JohnD

But Greem.
Please look at the MSA advice I linked to above. Picture A shows a car with two wheels clearly on the hatched area, marked with a green tick - "Acceptable" - , whereas the car in Pic B has its wheels beyond the hatching and is marked with a red cross - "Not Acceptable". There are other examples, inc. a pic of two cars, one "Acceptable" the other not.

As you're a veteran marshal, if I put two wheels on the hatched area, please don't report me!
John

Again, it's the FiA, not the MSA.

[JohnD]

OK Greem, I mean the area beyond the white line from the track centre, that carries alternate white and red lines at right angles to the track.

John

[Greem]

That's a painted kerb. Being on that is allowed. The MSA pictorial guide is spot on.

Except it doesn't apply to F1, as we've said several times previously.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They could just put gravel and grass back where it should be...

Perfect!