The most Frightening crash I have ever witnessed. (ALMS PLM)

[davehenrie]

When the Maseratti hit the outside wall late in the PLM, I almost got sick to my stomach. At Miller Motorsports Park, a Grand AM DP car burned almost to the ground after severing an oil line. During the last ALMS race at Detroit, The Flying Lizard Porsche was enveloped in a huge smokey fireball. Even back a few more years ago, Dale Earnhardt Jr. was almost trapped in a flaming Corvette.
So here was the wounded Maz, pinned to the outer wall, which prevented the driver from exiting the car. The announcers stated he had tried to exit via the passenger side but was unable to due to the interior roll bars. What if the impact had knocked the fuel filler line loose? Or some other calamity ignited the easily flammable Carbon Fibre body?

Luckily, there was no fireball, no leaking fuel, but what IF? We all would have been watching live as a driver burned to death. I would hope ACO and IMSA and every other racing organization takes a hard look at this possibility. A year or so ago, Michael Waltrip was laughed at in the Nascar circles for designing a roof escape hatch. After watching Andrea Bertolini try in vain to exit the MC-12, I can only hope Waltrip becomes the leader in this NEEDED safety inovation.

Dave Henrie

[aeroehl]

This could happen in any series non open wheel series. The driver gets pinned and cannot get out during a fire. They could add a roof flap on the car, but that is about it.

[Purist]

And you'd have to make sure it sealed properly with the snorkel intake on the Maserati's roof.

[gucom]

in some cars (armoured cars i believe) you can push/kick out the front windshield, would that be an idea? i do agree with you that it's a major risk if that kind of accident would happen, im pretty happy with the ACO's drivers' safety record of the last decade or so, no deaths since '97 i believe? I really wanna keep it that way...

[AstonGeoff]

Life is full of "What If's".....

Motorsport is probably about as safe as it can be these days, you can't build in a safety device for every eventuality. By all means put an escape hatch in the roof, but what happens if the car is upside down? Do you want one in the floor as well? What happens if the driver is trapped so can't get out? What happens if he is knocked unconcious? What happens if the accident buckles the shell so that the hatch can't be opened?

I've seen plenty of drivers get injured at race meetings i've been to over the years and i've seen big shunts where drivers have walked away, so trying to build in safety for every eventuality is nigh in impossible. What is just as important is making sure that there is enough emergency cover at the circuits to cope with an incident. There should have been enough fire extinguisher on board the Maser and locally to the incident with fire trucks and marshals to have put out any fire before it got too dangerious for the driver. If this wasn't the case then it probably needs addressing more than the safety of the car!

[The Badger]

I agree with AstonGeoff ...... in that motorsports has never been so safe . You cant plan for every eventuality .

Like the Alex Zanardi accident a few years ago , terrible as it was , it hasnt happened since . Call it what you will , a freak accident , that doesnt give the poor chap back his legs .

But I do feel that motorsport as we know it now is 1000% safer than 20 years ago .....

Its pointed out that in this case the rollbars actually obstructed the drivers exit . What can one do about that ? Reposition them , but then they are probably in that position for a reason anyway .

What if a wheel from another accident entered the window of another car ? Some things you cant stop , only try your damdest to make things safer .

Just my ten pence is all .

[The Badger]

Is there any video footage of the accident ?

[Tim the Grey]

Dunno about footage, but I watched it live, and it was a glancing blow after running wide in a high speed corner. The car was pretty intact, just hard against the wall, on the LH side.

I personally feel it should not be beyond the wit of man to engineer this so a driver can exit either side. There are two doors after all...

Scarier was the Sara Free MC12 burying itself in the tyre wall at Raidillon in the Spa 24 hours. BOTH doors were covered in tyres from what I saw.

[johntt]

A roof hatch would be a good idea - they have them in Nascar.

[The Badger]

An awful looking contraption !!!

Why do we need a roof hatch ? Its not as if there is a lot of flipping these past few years in GT . Try putting one of those on an LMP1 or LMP2 car , where flipping is more likely !!!

[dxk1]

Wasn't Tomas Enge also trapped in his Ferrari when he injured his arm earlier this year at St. Petersburg? This is a serious concern, but the solutions are few. What does NASCAR do? They are usually quite proactive on driver safety issues.

DK

[Chaos81]

Originally Posted by The Badger

An awful looking contraption !!!

Why do we need a roof hatch ? Its not as if there is a lot of flipping these past few years in GT . Try putting one of those on an LMP1 or LMP2 car , where flipping is more likely !!!

Awful looking contraption? You can't even see it. Somehow or another I think you're getting things confused here.

What was talked about earlier is a roof hatch, that you can open to get out of if, in a case like the Maser, you can't get out the drivers side. What you seem to be talking about since you brought up flipping, is the roof flaps the keep the car on the ground when it's going backwards. Two completely different things, for two completely different purposes.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Chaos81

Somehow or another I think you're getting things confused here.

Your right ..... apologies .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by johntt

A roof hatch would be a good idea - they have them in Nascar.

How would that apply to a car with a roof air intake . If you rerouted the scoop would that not raise homogation issues ?

[AU N EGL]

As much as we dont like to see accidnets, some times concreat walls are our firends, by helping the race car slow down skimming along the wall, vs going back into traffic, or head on into the tire wall like the corvette did.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by gucom

in some cars (armoured cars i believe) you can push/kick out the front windshield, would that be an idea? i do agree with you that it's a major risk if that kind of accident would happen, im pretty happy with the ACO's drivers' safety record of the last decade or so, no deaths since '97 i believe? I really wanna keep it that way...

A removable windscreen would be a very good idea. Mandate a setup where the screen can be pushed out fron the inside, bring it in for tourers as well. It does a similar job as a roof exit and would be much cheaper - it's better to have that than no roof exit. It would also be helpful for drivers getting out of flipped cars.

Isn't there some rule that mandates a car must be exitable from both sides within a certain amount of time?

[yamato]

I really think that Bertolini was just waiting for the safety vehicles to arrive. It just was not safe to exit the car as that is the exit of the fastest corner on the track.

I watched from the pit lane as he then exited through the right side of the car once the safety vehicles got there. It did not look like anyone was required to help him out. There is nothing about the car or roll cage that would inhibit the driver from exiting on the "passenger" side of the car.

Same thing with the Enge crash in St. Pete.,... there he needed help getting out cause he was hurt. If the Masserati was on fire, I'd be willing to bet that Bertolini would have gotten out sooner.

[panoz.lmp1]

Maybe i don´t understand your posts but the MC12 rollcage on the passengers side is the same like on the drivers side

[Purist]

Also, in the St. Petersburg incident, I believe Enge was knocked out, or dazed at the very least. Therefore, it wouldn't have been wise for him to try to exit on his own anyway.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Dave Henrie

When the Maseratti hit the outside wall late in the PLM, I almost got sick to my stomach. At Miller Motorsports Park, a Grand AM DP car burned almost to the ground after severing an oil line. During the last ALMS race at Detroit, The Flying Lizard Porsche was enveloped in a huge smokey fireball. Even back a few more years ago, Dale Earnhardt Jr. was almost trapped in a flaming Corvette.
So here was the wounded Maz, pinned to the outer wall, which prevented the driver from exiting the car. The announcers stated he had tried to exit via the passenger side but was unable to due to the interior roll bars. What if the impact had knocked the fuel filler line loose? Or some other calamity ignited the easily flammable Carbon Fibre body?

Luckily, there was no fireball, no leaking fuel, but what IF? We all would have been watching live as a driver burned to death. I would hope ACO and IMSA and every other racing organization takes a hard look at this possibility. A year or so ago, Michael Waltrip was laughed at in the Nascar circles for designing a roof escape hatch. After watching Andrea Bertolini try in vain to exit the MC-12, I can only hope Waltrip becomes the leader in this NEEDED safety inovation.

Dave Henrie

Either you are paranoid troll, or a sick troll, go dream about your nasty what-ifs where someone really cares.

[The359]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Either you are paranoid troll, or a sick troll, go dream about your nasty what-ifs where someone really cares.

I'm going to have to say that's uncalled for. I see nothing wrong with Dave Henrie's post or his questions as to the safety of the cars used in the series, and certainly some people here do care about it, as we all should.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by The359

I'm going to have to say that's uncalled for. I see nothing wrong with Dave Henrie's post or his questions as to the safety of the cars used in the series, and certainly some people here do care about it, as we all should.

AH well then with each racing snafu I will add a plethora of mighta, coulda, woulda with gory detail of WHAT DID NOT HAPPEN, but I THINK COULD HAVE.

AFter I do, you tell what good points those posts have and how they serve any decent purpose.
There is a nice long ghoulish thread oh how racers died, with over a thousand posts, at the Atlas site, and another on where they are buried, maybe I should start one here as it such positive idea?

[The359]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

AH well then with each racing snafu I will add a plethora of mighta, coulda, woulda with gory detail of WHAT DID NOT HAPPEN, but I THINK COULD HAVE.

AFter I do, you tell what good points those posts have and how they serve any decent purpose.
There is a nice long ghoulish thread oh how racers died, with over a thousand posts, at the Atlas site, and another on where they are buried, maybe I should start one here as it such positive idea?

Maybe you should calm down and realize people are not attempting to be disrespectful, gory, or negative. This thread discusses safety issues that might have cropped up with this accident, and have cropped up before. There is nothing wrong with it.

This is not the Atlas site so I cannot speak for their forum.

[kingkai]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

AH well then with each racing snafu I will add a plethora of mighta, coulda, woulda with gory detail of WHAT DID NOT HAPPEN, but I THINK COULD HAVE.

AFter I do, you tell what good points those posts have and how they serve any decent purpose.
There is a nice long ghoulish thread oh how racers died, with over a thousand posts, at the Atlas site, and another on where they are buried, maybe I should start one here as it such positive idea?

Wow chill out.
Dave Henrie has a point about crashes. Seen the 1994 JGTC F40 crash?...
So I get his idea of discussing GT safety. But we might also add no drivers have died in GT1 cars since... (not exactly know) might say it save to say since 1996?...
But some fire crashes seem awfully scary looking with the big fireballs in GT cars when they do catch fire.

Chill out, it is about safety, not discussing the driver might have died in a certain crash... c'mon act as grown ups

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Purist

Also, in the St. Petersburg incident, I believe Enge was knocked out, or dazed at the very least. Therefore, it wouldn't have been wise for him to try to exit on his own anyway.

And the throttle was open too .