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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:11 (Ref:3890777)   #6376
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Why do the cars need to be slower? If the current LMP1P cars can do the speeds they are doing, why do we need to slow them down?

Unless they're wanting to slow them so they can use them on Grade 2 circuits more often?
I don't think this has to do with Grade 2 circuits per se. Rather, I think it's probably an attempt at further cost control that might even be tied into allowing road-based hypercars to be (more) competitive.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:23 (Ref:3890780)   #6377
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http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...o-and-wec.html

“Balance of performance has worked very well with a variety of platforms in GTE, it is a complex matter here but we believe it is deliverable” – ACO Sporting Director Vincent Beaumesnil.
There was a clear acknowledgment that the challenges of balancing such disparate packages require Balance of Performance and NOT Equivalence of Technology.


Le Mans is dead.

For 2021-2024 ish anyway.

Absolutely no interest for this trash
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:24 (Ref:3890781)   #6378
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At 3:25 there was already no reason to not just allow LMP2s to run for outright win with ProAm as their handicap honestly.

3:30 is probably faster than a road based car should even be running with other cars around as far as keeping the things on the ground let alone in one piece but they can't position the class any slower.

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Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
I would posit none of what you said is reality
Yeah I was wrong, it means a BoP class 3 seconds slower than LMP2.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:24 (Ref:3890782)   #6379
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That's what it is. They want the hypercars to be competitive so they slowed them even further. This is what happens when you have to cater to the new manufacturers because the last one's spent F1-money and left you high and dry. What a sad state to be in but this is what we get to look forward to. Maybe the cars will look cool and lap times can be faster than what they think so we do get separation of classes. I doubt crash testing is a problem, they should have plenty enough safety with how the dimensions are and the technology behind carbon chassis.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:28 (Ref:3890785)   #6380
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Originally Posted by carbsmith View Post
it means a BoP class 3 seconds slower than LMP2.
We used to call that GTE, but now we'll have that as our premier package

3 BoP classes and one spec class it is then for the coming seasons. The IMSA model copypasted in essence, but looks to be even worse. DPi looks quaint in comparison now
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:42 (Ref:3890790)   #6381
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Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
We used to call that GTE, but now we'll have that as our premier package

3 BoP classes and one spec class it is then for the coming seasons. The IMSA model copypasted in essence, but looks to be even worse. DPi looks quaint in comparison now
I wouldn't go that far. I'd still prefer original cars like these hypercars over bumper sticker lmp2 done-up dpi's.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:47 (Ref:3890795)   #6382
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I wouldn't go that far. I'd still prefer original cars like these hypercars over bumper sticker lmp2 done-up dpi's.
Cheapskate sticker & BoP -engineering of DPi is horrendous, but at least they're not mishmash of 5 different ideologies all jammed together

Remember the fun times of DPG3, LMP2 and Deltawing together
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 19:49 (Ref:3890796)   #6383
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Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
Cheapskate sticker & BoP -engineering of DPi is horrendous, but at least they're not mishmash of 5 different ideologies all jammed together

Remember the fun times of DPG3, LMP2 and Deltawing together
Deltawing...I think I just threw up in my mouth.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 20:19 (Ref:3890815)   #6384
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Originally Posted by carbsmith View Post

3:30 is probably faster than a road based car should even be running with other cars around as far as keeping the things on the ground let alone in one piece but they can't position the class any slower.
.
Prototypes have had to adopt the Big Honkin Fin & Big Honkin Holes to reduce possibility of aero induced flights. The supercars won't have that?
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 21:25 (Ref:3890849)   #6385
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I would like to mark this page and see how many of the LM is dead to me people actually start ignoring it from this. Stop attending and watching and maybe they'll change but it still sells tickets and has viewers so why change?

Personally I don't care, lap times don't get me off. Slower faster I couldn't care a guess what, I don't see the other lap on track, they're still racing the other guys

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Old 15 Mar 2019, 21:57 (Ref:3890860)   #6386
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Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
Cheapskate sticker & BoP -engineering of DPi is horrendous, but at least they're not mishmash of 5 different ideologies all jammed together

Remember the fun times of DPG3, LMP2 and Deltawing together
I think by the second year of the rules all the cars will have a similar shape. There's just hypercars built purposely or taken from a road car. My guess is that manufacturers are going to take a hypercar on the street and turn it into something that just resembles it. I'm thinking more extreme than GTE, something like late 2000's GT500 or late 90s GT1 like the Mercedes CLR.
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Old 16 Mar 2019, 12:31 (Ref:3890979)   #6387
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Another race weekend and here we go, we have a new variation on the future rules, now they will acept the non hybrid supercars, what's next? Squared tyres?


It's quite easy, DPi works and current supercars rules doesn't, times are changing for the motorsport, now the brands are selling ecology and **** like that. But motorsport is the opposite (noise and crazy people going fast), so the brands are not the future for rancing. Have you seen the TCR? Saloon cars racing was almost dead, but TCR came with an easy and cheap sollution, with no official teams and no complications the saloon cars came back really strong one more time. You can make your own TCR with 4 friends, glass fiber and one wrench.



Does the ACO people wants the hypercars at any cost? Ok, make it easy, just make the LMP2/Dpi shape a bit different and you'll have a nice and superdupe hypercar.


Does the ACO and Toyota want a hybrid at any cost? Ok, add one 20-30K cost capped hybrid sistem for everyone, Toyota one? Why not? I don't care about it. Technology doesn't need to be expensive, you have an hybrid Yaris by less than 15000 euros.


Who needs technology on motorsport? I don't, you neither, australian supercars neither too.



Everybody happy and cake for me.
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Old 16 Mar 2019, 12:57 (Ref:3890981)   #6388
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Vincent Beaumesnil, December 2018:
-- No, it's not [BoP] -- The aim is not therefore to balance the performance of the cars in relation to each other, but to curb the “development at any cost” strategy that saw budgets rocket with the previous generation of cars. So, no, it is not BOP. "
https://www.lemans.org/en/news/fia-w...ctor-aco/50599

Vincent Beaumesnil, March 2019
“Balance of performance has worked very well with a variety of platforms in GTE, it is a complex matter here but we believe it is deliverable”
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...o-and-wec.html

Vincent Beaumesnil, March 2019
"The introduction of BoP will also help to control costs"
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...pdate/4353468/

Go away Vincent

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Originally Posted by pablocomics View Post
Who needs technology on motorsport? I don't, you neither, australian supercars neither too.
No. Just no.
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Old 16 Mar 2019, 13:20 (Ref:3890984)   #6389
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I like the "manipulating" and "does not reward vehicular superiority" wordings from MP

https://racer.com/2019/03/15/insight...-to-lock-down/

-- Where this change holds significance is found in another revelation from the ACO/WEC, that Balance of Performance will be introduced in Hypercar, replacing the current Equivalence of Technology system found in LMP1. BoP and EoT differ greatly.

EoT, which has been in place for more than a decade with LMP1, gives manufacturers a list of options to choose while considering the size of engines, vehicle weight, and other key items that have given a platform for turbodiesels, gas-powered engines, and hybrid systems all to be used without penalizing one manufacturer for making better choices than the others.

Although EoT has been used like BoP since Audi and Porsche withdrew from LMP1-Hybrid and the ACO/WEC opted to balance the Toyota TS050s against non-hybrid LMP1s, traditional BoP does not reward vehicular superiority. Instead, BoP seeks to balance different types of cars – slowing the fast or speeding up the slow – in search of parity.

Working as EoT is intended, the best car will win, and without the series’ hand being felt through manipulating performance levels. BoP is the exact opposite. --
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Old 16 Mar 2019, 13:59 (Ref:3890992)   #6390
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Evolution of 20 years... is not a pleasant sight

2001 LM
LMGTP - Tech class, free to join
LMP900 - Tech class, free to join
LMP675 - Tech class, free to join
LMGTS - Tech class, free to join
LMGT - Tech class, free to join

2002 LM
LMGTP - Tech class, free to join
LMP900 - Tech class, free to join
LMP675 - Tech class, free to join
LMGTS - Tech class, free to join
LMGT - Tech class, free to join

2003 LM
LMGTP - Tech class, free to join
LMP900 - Tech class, free to join
LMP675 - Tech class, free to join
LMGTS - Tech class, free to join
LMGT - Tech class, free to join

2004 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGTS - Tech class, free to join
LMGT - Tech class, free to join

2005 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGT1 - Tech class, free to join
LMGT2 - Tech class, free to join

2006 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGT1 - Tech class, free to join
LMGT2 - Tech class, free to join

2007 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGT1 - Tech class, free to join
LMGT2 - Tech class, free to join

2008 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGT1 - Tech class, free to join
LMGT2 - Tech class, free to join

2009 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGT1 - Tech class, free to join
LMGT2 - Tech class, free to join

2010 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Tech class, free to join for privateers
LMGT1 - Tech/ semi BoP class, free to join
LMGT2 - Tech/ semi BoP class, free to join

2011 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Semi tech class (tech freeze, cost cap), free to join for privateers, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - Almost BoP class (0,5% rule), free to join
LMGTE-AM - Sub Almost BoP class (0,5% rule), pro-am

2012 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Semi tech class (tech freeze, cost cap), free to join for privateers, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2013 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Semi tech class (tech freeze, cost cap), free to join for privateers, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2014 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Semi tech class (tech freeze, cost cap), free to join for privateers, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2015 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Semi tech class (tech freeze, cost cap), free to join for privateers, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2016 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Semi tech class (tech freeze, cost cap), free to join for privateers, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2017 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Spec class, privateer, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2018 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Spec class, privateer, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2019 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Spec class, privateer, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

2020 LM
LMP1 - Tech class, free to join
LMP2 - Spec class, privateer, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, proam

2021 LM
LMXXX - BoP class, free to join
LMP2 - Spec class, privateer, pro-am
LMGTE-PRO - BoP class, free to join
LMGTE-AM - BoP Sub class, pro-am

Last edited by Chiana; 16 Mar 2019 at 14:10.
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