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9 Nov 2020, 11:52 (Ref:4015627) | #1676 | |||
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It's also interesting to see how some of this length increase is due to safety improvements. Purely coincidentally I was editing some old photographs yesterday and these included the 1986 British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch. There was a bad accident at the start of the race right in front of me which resulted in Jacques Lafitte badly breaking both of his legs (and ending his F1 career). One of my pictures of his Ligier being craned away afterwards clearly showed that the front of the monocoque was just broken off in the impact! |
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Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
9 Nov 2020, 13:08 (Ref:4015644) | #1677 | ||
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I remember that day, it resulted in the rule change that required the feet to be behind the front axle line.
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9 Nov 2020, 13:13 (Ref:4015645) | #1678 | ||
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But I'm sure the innovation would be amazing. |
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9 Nov 2020, 14:57 (Ref:4015656) | #1679 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
The sport has always has some type of box it had to stay inside of. Even saying we must use four wheels and have a driver in the car is setting limits as to what can be done. Quote:
Richard |
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9 Nov 2020, 19:26 (Ref:4015716) | #1680 | |
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At the end of the day, there is only so much a designer can do. Hopefully innovation isn’t quite dead and I think we’ve seen enough to show there is still room for it.
At the end of the day we have reached a point where we have set boundaries. Obviously we don’t want to go over the top to the point where we have cars that can’t race each other Obviously the old radical thinking we saw back in the day maybe 40 years ago is gone. We’ve got set parameters and it’s up to teams to try and find that limit. No out of the box thinking, but anything in the box goes I just hope diversity between the cars carries on, as we need F1 to continue being a series with different cars |
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9 Nov 2020, 20:34 (Ref:4015731) | #1681 | ||
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Can you have two ends in one day?
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44 days... |
9 Nov 2020, 20:58 (Ref:4015735) | #1682 | ||
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Only time will tell.
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
9 Nov 2020, 21:20 (Ref:4015739) | #1683 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Perhaps the solution will dawn on someone.
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9 Nov 2020, 21:33 (Ref:4015741) | #1684 | ||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
9 Nov 2020, 22:02 (Ref:4015745) | #1685 | ||
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10 Nov 2020, 02:01 (Ref:4015770) | #1686 | |
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I just found this video of James Hunt commentating on one of the South American GPs in 1982 about how the rule makers had messed up the rules to make the competition closer and the Brabham domination Piquet and Rebaque was making a mockery of the sport.
Oh, how this commentary could be dubbed over any modern GP of the last 7 years with complete accuracy, just substitute names. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyPRnpqRRA4 Can't wait for the 2022 regs, ha bloody ha! |
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10 Nov 2020, 06:20 (Ref:4015784) | #1687 | ||
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10 Nov 2020, 11:03 (Ref:4015812) | #1688 | |||
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It was one of the most ooen periods in history. My god if the rubbish we have these days was half as close as it was back then!!!! |
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10 Nov 2020, 14:37 (Ref:4015854) | #1689 | |
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13 Nov 2020, 23:22 (Ref:4016425) | #1690 | |
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I don't disagree with you Chunterer, It was just how accurately; way more accurately than at the time they were made; Hunt's commentary could apply to the rubbish we are stuck with at the moment.
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13 Nov 2020, 23:45 (Ref:4016428) | #1691 | |
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Do you have any sort of evidence to support this?
CART were able to pull enough G-Forces in the 90s to cause drivers lose peripheral vision and become light headed. Races were abandoned because drivers were close to blacking out from the forces. And that was regulated chassis 20 years ago. And what makes you think that 20 years of progression, with unregulated chassis, and open competitive development will not achieve this? And you think it'll be ok to re-introduce things like aggressive side skirts, despite the massive risk of accidents that the cars will have....at even higher speeds? Or the active aerodynamics that have drivers driving one handed? I'm sure it'll be fine. Lets do it. The sport was better when we lost 3-4 drivers a year anyway. |
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14 Nov 2020, 14:11 (Ref:4016543) | #1692 | |||
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Quote:
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
14 Nov 2020, 14:13 (Ref:4016545) | #1693 | |
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How to fix F1: Ask the construction company that resurfaced Turkey to do a world tour.
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14 Nov 2020, 18:43 (Ref:4016646) | #1694 | ||
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44 days... |
15 Nov 2020, 05:32 (Ref:4016809) | #1695 | ||
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I watched F1 in the 1980's and I can safely say that I can't remember what I had for lunch today..
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15 Nov 2020, 16:55 (Ref:4016998) | #1696 | ||
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Brundle made a good point about this race/track being a good argument for slashing downforce.
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30 Nov 2020, 19:30 (Ref:4019755) | #1697 | ||
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was not sure where to put this and didnt want to take the race thread too far off topic.
but the length and weight of these cars... how much does the length and weight of these cars contribute to the risk level? no doubt that a stronger stronger safety cell is a benefit but where is the trade off between that and the extra force a heavier car carries into an accident? does a relatively smaller car do better in situations like this and also the incident at Mugello? does a less long car mean Grosjean finds the gap in front of Kvyat? |
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Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
30 Nov 2020, 21:22 (Ref:4019758) | #1698 | ||
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Overall, I don't see size (too long) or weight (too heavy) being a large factor in the recent Grosjean accident. Of course you could argue the weight/mass of the car was higher than decades past, so it was able to more deeply spear into the armco. Less mass and the armco may have not split as much and that may have had higher g forces on the driver (not good). More weight and maybe it would have punched through and made it easier for him to escape (good)! Or the extra weight could have allowed him to spear on through and create other issues (such as escaping into areas considers "safe" for course workers (bad). I know people complain about the weight of the cars. I think there is a certain level of extra these cars carry due to pure safety improvements. And a specific amount that is due to complex power units. I am all for simpler power units that could allow the cars to weigh less, but keep all of the safety improvements. Richard |
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30 Nov 2020, 21:26 (Ref:4019759) | #1699 | |
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I might also mention. I don't think Grosjean's nose crash structure "compressed" as it was expected to do. It looked relatively intact. So the deceleration was from the deformation of the armco and not the crash structure. And the safety cell took some unanticipated damage (in my opinion). Side crush structures seemed to have worked.
Richard |
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30 Nov 2020, 21:40 (Ref:4019760) | #1700 | ||
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I think there are many factors at play here with this crash. One thing I dont recall seeing decades ago, is many of these kind of crashes, so I wonder if its partly a driver behavior issue, or maybe a rear vision issue of not being aware of where your car is relative to another car beside you (poor mirrors?). Certainly the increased weight helped to penetrate the barrier. I think the cars are over 100kg heavier than cars from the 90s (for example).
I do think some drivers (all?) do push the rules of the road and the rules of racing further than drivers did 20-30 years ago. I dont think you would get drivers pushing drivers wide into a gravel trap, or going onto wide grass and flooring it to rejoin as they do these days when its tarmac run off. I'm no fan of the Halo (and I still am not) but you cant really argue that in this case, it saved Grosjean's life. |
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