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Old 10 Aug 2019, 11:31 (Ref:3922177)   #16
Alan52
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Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by champcarman View Post
Pretty right.

I love open wheel racing and the more the better and F4 racing has been great despite the usually small fields.

However it was created wrongly. CAMS should have found a promotor instead of doing it themselves, it should never have gone ahead without an engine sponsor (AKA Ford in the UK) and it should have been done in cooperation with FF and F3 not in competition.

As it is FF has thrived on a state/national basis and F4 has possibly reached its use by date (hopefully not though). FF is one category ARG should be looking at closely I believe.

A ladder system with scholarships to progress from FF, F4, F3 to S5000 would be great and something ARG PAYCE should look at.
CAMS tried to find a promoter for F4 from the time they decided to introduce the category.Couldnt find anyone stupid enough.
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Old 10 Aug 2019, 12:55 (Ref:3922179)   #17
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Who pays

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A ladder system with scholarships to progress from FF, F4, F3 to S5000 would be great and something ARG PAYCE should look at.
Fine aspiration, who pays?
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Old 10 Aug 2019, 14:38 (Ref:3922191)   #18
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CAMS job _should_ be to be in the background... Commercial rights are one thing, but the job of an ASN isn't to be a big brand that is visible or gets bought out like Supercars did.

Nor should they be owning categories or cars. They are there to administrate and advocate racing locally and overseas.
The FIA is a big brand and very visible when it comes to F1, WEC, WRC etc.. even though all are promoted by others. Why shouldn't CAMS be more at the forefront here just like the FIA is at world level?

CAMS were the main player with V8s until they gave it away in 1996, ultimately leading to the current monster
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Old 11 Aug 2019, 01:13 (Ref:3922251)   #19
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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The FIA is a big brand and very visible when it comes to F1, WEC, WRC etc.. even though all are promoted by others. Why shouldn't CAMS be more at the forefront here just like the FIA is at world level?



CAMS were the main player with V8s until they gave it away in 1996, ultimately leading to the current monster
CAMS isn't the FIA. CAMS exists to implement the policies the FIA puts in place and to represent Australian members at the FIA.

F4 was something CAMS should never have done. If I was some rally driver I would be ****ed at my dues being used for a risky folly wirh such ridiculous conflict of interest as F4.
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Old 11 Aug 2019, 01:52 (Ref:3922257)   #20
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Fine aspiration, who pays?
That’s the crunch.I don’t believe the money is around in Australian motor sport to support viable grids of anything more expensive than FF.
As for S5000 I’m not even sure who it is aimed at.It is an expensive category.If you are aiming at an os career the cars have no relevance to any category you would want to race there.If you are aiming for Supercars you probably should run Super 2 for that amount of money.The cars are too much for gentleman drivers to race at anywhere near the cars potential.I think they would be good to watch but doubt they will ever get a grid of competitors willing to put their money down.
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Old 11 Aug 2019, 07:25 (Ref:3922266)   #21
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
The FIA is a big brand and very visible when it comes to F1, WEC, WRC etc.. even though all are promoted by others. Why shouldn't CAMS be more at the forefront here just like the FIA is at world level?

CAMS were the main player with V8s until they gave it away in 1996, ultimately leading to the current monster
CAMS by its own admission at the time was not a specialist promoter / marketer and thus the joint venture organisation AVESCO was formed, with CAMS having a 10% shareholding and being on the board - still getting substantial earning out of the series that grew significantly bigger than it had been under CAMS promotion alone.

It was only when CAMS tried to do the wrong thing and undermine the other shareholders and take the organisation and category back in 2000 that CAMS "give it away" as the ensuing court case was settled pretty much on the scheduled day of the first court appearance with CAMS losing out heavily. Up until that time, CAMS had ID on the cars, ID at circuits, shareholding and substantially more income from the series than it had when it was doing the promoting.

After the confidential settlement, there was no CAMS ID on the cars, no ID at circuits etc. The settlement enabled AVESCO to have a freer approach to the sporting and racing rules and from that we had some of the best years of supercar racing in the noughties.

These days the relationship between CAMS and V8SA appears to be fairly cordial but it was "on" for a while there.
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Old 12 Aug 2019, 01:17 (Ref:3922369)   #22
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by champcarman View Post
Pretty right.

I love open wheel racing and the more the better and F4 racing has been great despite the usually small fields.

However it was created wrongly. CAMS should have found a promotor instead of doing it themselves, it should never have gone ahead without an engine sponsor (AKA Ford in the UK) and it should have been done in cooperation with FF and F3 not in competition.

As it is FF has thrived on a state/national basis and F4 has possibly reached its use by date (hopefully not though). FF is one category ARG should be looking at closely I believe.

A ladder system with scholarships to progress from FF, F4, F3 to S5000 would be great and something ARG PAYCE should look at.
F4 was foisted on CAMS by the FIA as a ladder to OS racing and unlike a lot of countries who refused to play ball and participate CAMS decided to jump in with both feet. This point got lost in the ensuing battles that were raged at the time to save the National category status that was lost by FF etc. professional motor sport run by part time amateurs never goes well and this is a prime example of it.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 09:27 (Ref:3928841)   #23
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
ARG wins the tender for the 5th Bathurst event, to be held in December, and to feature a 500km TCR race, plus TCM and S5000.

Given how twitchy the S5000's were at Sandown, how bad could it be at Bathurst?

Pretty massive collection of categories and events for ARG now. Lots of plates spinning.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 10:29 (Ref:3928849)   #24
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Its interesting, and the first time they have been competing with Supercars directly (for the 5th Bathurst event) and they beat them. Shots fired?
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 09:16 (Ref:3929046)   #25
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Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The proof will be whether the crowd is similar in size to the Supercars event or the 12-Hour
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 09:25 (Ref:3929047)   #26
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
With so much under one roof it won't be long until they make a decision someone likes and then they become the enemy
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 12:19 (Ref:3929074)   #27
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The proof will be whether the crowd is similar in size to the Supercars event or the 12-Hour
You expect similiar crowds for a start-up event in its first year?
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Old 21 Sep 2019, 00:11 (Ref:3929179)   #28
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The proof will be whether the crowd is similar in size to the Supercars event or the 12-Hour
That will not be a criteria any reasonable person would use.Obviously the crowds won’t be at current 12 Hour levels in year 1 and they will never get to 1000 levels.If it draws a strong international field it should aim to be at current 12 Hour levels by year 3.
I am pulling for ARG to succeed but see a lot of similarities to Ross Palmer/Procar which is worrying.
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Old 21 Sep 2019, 00:34 (Ref:3929182)   #29
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
When does saturation become an issue?
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Old 21 Sep 2019, 01:22 (Ref:3929188)   #30
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Are they fan-driven, or competitor-driven?
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