Liam Doran to use RS200

[bestrep]

Originally Posted by M.Lowe

Money deffo talks in Rallycross

and so does no money would you not agree!!?.

[sjones]

Yeah but lucky as he is to drive it the real question is how can he handle a Group B RS200 with a stupid amount of horsepower? We've all seen that his driving has improved a bit but has it improved enough?

[StockHatch782]

Well, he's been going alright in the Fiesta after having driven it only a few times, and he's apparently driven the RS200 a few times before. I know a lot of people don't get on with Liam, but he could surprise us all after a couple of meetings.

[Thundersports]

Is Rallycross about technology or the fans?
I always assumed it was the fans/competitors?
Ask anyone attending a Rallycross meeting with a group B car or two what there favourite car competing that day is.......................

[M.Lowe]

Originally Posted by bestrep

and so does no money would you not agree!!?.

Yes, but my point was a car that outlawed in Europe was then outlawed on the Superprix before, but then allowed back in for some reason or another

I love to see new cars come into rallycross, but there is room for all to compete on and if a track/event gets a round of a European championship then that eventwont be allowing the British cars to compete will they and with talk of newer tracks coming on then the more established tracks have a better chance to host a european round.

It will be different to see how Liam handles the RS but lets see how he does first with it in anger

[daz2202]

Regardless of whether group b's should or shouldn't be out there. (i think that this should be a thread on its own).

Before people knock what Liam hasn't done yet, lets just wait and see what he can produce with this car. Remember the car has proved itself over and over and he is yet to, so here is his ultimate chance.

more to the point what will Daddy say when / if he gets beat.

[M.Lowe]

what would you expect him to say as the top drivers are used to that power, but just because Liam has tested the car dosnt mean he will be used to that power and contact together
When the lights go to green the racing becomes mean

[sjones]

I agree with M, Driving a rallycross car on your own is completely different to driving it in a race. The fact that you've got cars all around you trying to get into the all important first corner spot and they're all pushing for it, the people who have the knowledge of how far to push their car before it's gonna turn into a disaster is gonna always have the advantage.

[daz2202]

Originally Posted by sjones

I agree with M, Driving a rallycross car on your own is completely different to driving it in a race. The fact that you've got cars all around you trying to get into the all important first corner spot and they're all pushing for it, the people who have the knowledge of how far to push their car before it's gonna turn into a disaster is gonna always have the advantage.

Agreed, what i am saying is lets not knock him before he has had a go. I bet his ol chocolate ring has started to throb already

I'm also in dave's (stockhatch782) corner on this, and will join him on the jealous bench.

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by daz2202

I'm also in dave's (stockhatch782) corner on this, and will join him on the jealous bench.

It's a cold, cold bench Daz, outside in the cold and drenched in bitter rain.

But it will nice to have your company.

[daz2202]

Originally Posted by StockHatch782

It's a cold, cold bench Daz, outside in the cold and drenched in bitter rain.

But it will nice to have your company.

1 day eh! certainly not this year now my n/rock shares have really gone down the pan and if i didn't laugh i really would cry

[DCS]

Trouble is: If there are say 8 cars 3 of them not "current", if you ban those 3 you end up with 5...

But people still love to see old "new" technology hence the popularity of Trackdays, Meetings, Bergrennen, Hillclimbing, Gatebil events, Bilsport events, Group B, C, H, etc, etc. Let's face it: even the Supernationals are old style technology cars, reshelled into something less old...

Personally I much rather see the RS200 in action, than Mini's, 2CV's, Dakar trucks, Motorbikes, etc, etc. But that is not the point ofcourse.

Against is the constant changing rules of classes, in that matter it is nearly impossible to reshell the 306 into a 207, half the parts cannot be used again.

Also the sub divisions change constantly: Gp A5-8 2WD > Gp N4 4WD > GP N3 2WD > Era cup (Gp A7 2wd). And in Rally: Kitcars 2000 > S1600 > S2000 4wd... WRC? Banned in most rallies. Makes you car worthless...

I think there should be only 3-4 classes:
S1600 Gp A6, S2000 Gp A7 (or like new Civic half Gp A half Gp N), Div 1 and maybe something like SuperNationals.

But there is a big but in that. I expect to see more and more manufactures introducing "downsizing" and almost all powerfull hatchback 2 litres are gone so why not new classes with limited turbo choise freedom:
S1400T (VW Polo/Golf TSI, Fiat Punto/Bravo T-Jet) next to Div 1? Or a class for 2 litre Diesels (BMW123D, Golf, Leon Cupra)?

I still think that Div 1 should be clearly on top of all that, but with their weight system the FIA system is so based on putting everything so close together like a (2 litre) turbo is so special these days, not!

And I think a car should be homologated for at least 7 years and it's class also!

But hey! There are now more Div 1 cars than ever (or available), so maybe afterall we will get fully loaded finals again. Imagine if all local Div 1 would join the ERC... And yes bring England back on the calendar!

[p14geu]

I have to agree with all comments made on this thread....Basically, will be good to see the RS200 out on the circuit and looking forward to seeing it in the Doran Livery, but I do think that he might struggle in it, but it might be a good spectacle watching him try to tame the beast.....If anyone has ever watched bull riding, it will probably be a bit like that and that is very funny to watch.

At the same time, until everyone has the funds to upgrade their cars to newer spec, i think it makes sens to keep all cars in Rallycross, including the Group B as otherwise there would be no one in it, but that is an arguament for a different thread.

[DCS]

Oh BTW: I don't believe the "it is old, so it cannot match modern rivals" theory. Why? If a road going vehicle can be turned into Div 1 spec, an old car can have the same threatment: ALS, new type shockdampers, advanced engine electronics, diffs, new grippy tyres, double roller bearing turbo's, sequential gearboxes, etc.

Take a look at the current Focus' it still carries a Cosworth engine, but the engine spec alone is so much better that those Cosworth engines of the old days, despite the 45mm restrictor it is much better those off the Div 1 RS500's.

And I believe the current engine position (low in the front near the mid) is much better than in the Gp B days.

Just pointed out that newer is not allways better:
Kuyper Evo III was quicker than it's heavier IV
And most Focus II are the same spec as the Focus I...

[manimal27]

A lot of teh tech in rallycross cars hasnt moved along that much at all, mainly because the drievrs prefer to use a relaible pacake and also coz there isnt really the money to go out there ans start developing brand new engines from scratch.
Will managed it in the Gtech car but it took a while to get it right but it seems to be very good in restrictor spec?

Most Europeans would rather go with what they know, its easier to budget for it, quickr to change things and you know exactly what you are getting.

Faor play to guys like Hunsbedts team and Eklund for having a go in something different, the Skoda guys are using provne tech, that engine is very popular for tuning rememebr in Europe as it is used in Skodas, Seats and Audi/VW.

[DCS]

Oh yeah and don't forget that not every engine is suitable to tune into a highly stressed high boost turbo engine for Rallycross. It is not like putting a set of fancy rods in. Crank, bearing, shells, pistonrings and cilinderwalls will also see a lot of stress.

And according to drivers (in real live or in CCC) not all engines can live up. Even the big Cossy lump needs nikasil liners to give it more relaibility...

[Guffy]

Ok, lets bring this back to topic.

personally i think Liam in the RS200 has disaster written all over it, far too much power & no talent spells disaster in my book, i know of 1 occasion in stockhatch he Was pulled up in front of the stewards for erattic driving, & on that occasion he was on his own!!! Another time in stockhatch he was caught shouting & swearing at another driver who held HIS line on the track, but Liam thought it was his....! Just look at the carnage he caused to Boakys TT at last years BRxC final at Croft

So with Liam in the RS200, someone is going to get seriously hurt & not just in the wallet, so i think Liam should learn to walk before he can run....!!!

[sjones]

It's a mixture of feelings about Liam everywhere, Personally I agree with what guffy said. He should stick with that Fiesta and get to learn to drive that before stepping up into something thats more than likely more than double the horsepower and probably double the price! and put it this way, we all know Boaky wasn't exactly very pleased about what happened to his TT. I think a supercar driver will have no problem being extremely annoyed. Remember when O'Donovan went into the back of Evans at the '06 superprix? He wasn't pleased. Plus his temper gets him nowhere.

[leonidas]

I suppose this raises this issue of whether drivers should have to get a higher licence for Div 1 cars. Perhaps drivers should have to collect a certain number of 'clean event' signatures in supermods before progressing to Div 1? It might encourage people to keep their noses clean on the way up...

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I suppose this raises this issue of whether drivers should have to get a higher licence for Div 1 cars. Perhaps drivers should have to collect a certain number of 'clean event' signatures in supermods before progressing to Div 1? It might encourage people to keep their noses clean on the way up...

A nice idea, but not everyone races in supermods before they race in supercars.

Examples include: Steve Hill, Andrew Jordan, Ollie O'Donovan, George Tracey, Dermot Carnegie... the list goes on, and it's not exactly a list of unknowns is it?

[Matti Alamaki]

Tracey and Carnegie both cut their teeth in modified before they went into Supercars.

Carnegie in a Ford Fiesta
Tracey in a Ford Orion

[StockHatch782]

Ok, fair point, I should have chosen other drivers as examples!

But the point still stands. The British Rallycross Champion and the Supercar champion would not have been able to race in supercars last if the idea of 'clean supermod meetings' was enforced.

[DCS]

If I would have fundings I would start in Div 1 right away. I would not spoil money to drive in other classes before. I have droven fast motors before like an Astra F with 280 bhp C20LET motor or Sierra RS Cosworth with 300 bhp. I would like to drive something much faster than than, to get the buzz...

But back on topic a Div 1 is much different to drive than a short based RWD like the Fiesta, which I think is worse to drive than a FWD S1600. I would prefer driving cleaner and tighter lines like S1600, but much better Div 1. No D1 style "drifting" for me...

[Thundersports]

The best solution would be for the officials to keep a close eye on him during the heats and any sillyness with his temperment or driving should be dealt with hard and fast ie suspend his licence. I hope he does well and does justice to the car I think the peaple here who have been negative should give him a chance, if he blows it well he then only has himself to blame and the stick that will follow.

[Kevin McCann]

Have any of you people knocking Liam ever driven a supercar?Well Liam has,he is a very capable driver and will silence his critics im sure.If you cast your minds back you may remember so called experienced drivers causing carnage every time they get on the track!! So all im saying is give the lad a chance and let himself prove you all wrong.