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16 Nov 2006, 10:49 (Ref:1767570) | #51 | |||
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Son you gotta open your mind a little, I assumed (bad move) others would know I did not mean immediately; take two of the current Corvettes: one with the restrictors and one without the restrictor. Have them from a standing start race one mile straight, turn around by any means that works and then race back. Which car would you bet money on winning easily? Gee golly isn't that why the ACO strangles the cars so they go more slowly. That way they would put on a good show for a few years, until the chassis boys figured out how to put several hundred extra horses to the ground. Allowing wider tires would reduce the time considerably. The cars would no longer have quasi-slot car track aero aids, so different driving styles would be plainly displayed in corner entrance and exit, as the best, and those with large cajones, would learn quickly how to deal with a lot more horse power, and a lot less artificial stick caused by diffusers, and maybe wings, if the sanction wanted the speed recovery to last longer. In the original IMSA series, the tube GTO cars, with smaller tires and engines, and no wings, were lapping as fast the the previous radical AAGT cars, within about four years. Bob |
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16 Nov 2006, 11:13 (Ref:1767606) | #52 | |||
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Cuz i dont fully understand them ..... ok with that ? I personally dont agree with them at all , and would like that they wernt there to be honest ..... but if we dont have them , we will end up with a one make winner . Do we want that ? What choices are there to slow the cars down then ? Air restrictors , ballast penalties , flat bottom , adjusting the rear wing sizes (MC12 style) ..... what else ? Maybe you should ask one of the Creation boys (another thread) ..... if a Creation could or would go as fast around Le Mans or any other track without a rear wing or a diffuser !!! See what they say about it . So , yes ..... they do need wings and diffisers to go as fast , or am I wrong again ? |
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16 Nov 2006, 11:16 (Ref:1767610) | #53 | |||
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Planes cant fly without wings .... your talking about rockets . Determined pilot and lots of speed ..... but not in control completely . |
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16 Nov 2006, 12:27 (Ref:1767672) | #54 | |
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Bob I fail to see what wings and restrictors have to with eachother. The wings are there to provide stability in a straight line and down force in corners. The restrictors are there to enable cars of a wide variety of specifications to race eachother.
Are you seriously suggesting that Le Mans would be a better place if we had a group of almost identical wingless cars race for 24 hours? |
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16 Nov 2006, 12:28 (Ref:1767673) | #55 | ||
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16 Nov 2006, 14:20 (Ref:1767776) | #56 | ||
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Screw the restrictors and weight pennelties. Let the GT1 cars go as fast as possible. If the wind up faster the LMP2 cars GREAT.
Lets not slow some cars down, but encurage the slower cars to go faster and develop better technolgies to do so. GT1 and LMP1 cars are not that different, especially when you look at something like the MC12 and the new closed cockpit rules for 2010. |
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16 Nov 2006, 15:51 (Ref:1767846) | #57 | ||
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16 Nov 2006, 16:49 (Ref:1767900) | #58 | |
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I'm with Bob on this, I'd much prefare a 650-700bhp GT1 car, weighining 1000kg, without any aero devices.
You'd achive similar laps times, and if you must, could fit some kind of Gurney to keep top speeds in check. I'd don't see the point in production GT1 cars with massive wings and diffusers, yet loaded down with ballast and restrictor cuts. Give the cars some room to develop over time. At the moment they are over engineered for the class pace they are designed to run. Last edited by JAG; 16 Nov 2006 at 16:59. |
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16 Nov 2006, 16:54 (Ref:1767903) | #59 | ||
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16 Nov 2006, 17:43 (Ref:1767929) | #60 | |||
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16 Nov 2006, 18:14 (Ref:1767956) | #61 | |||
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Or other manufactures will just have to step up to make faster cars. |
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16 Nov 2006, 18:21 (Ref:1767964) | #62 | ||
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16 Nov 2006, 19:13 (Ref:1767996) | #63 | |||
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L.P. |
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16 Nov 2006, 20:18 (Ref:1768034) | #64 | ||
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17 Nov 2006, 05:06 (Ref:1768238) | #65 | |||
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The Porsche 935 did not dominate due to horsepower, it was the rest of the package the performed outstandingly. |
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17 Nov 2006, 08:50 (Ref:1768330) | #66 | ||
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17 Nov 2006, 09:14 (Ref:1768360) | #67 | ||
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after the first pratice session in dubai the larbre ferrari was faster than the bartels/bertolini maserati, longin/kumpen/hezemens corvette and the gollin/ramos aston martin. also was 0.872 seconds off the fastest time set by the phoneix racing aston .
looks as if this new engine has potential |
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17 Nov 2006, 11:48 (Ref:1768478) | #68 | ||
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The reason for the aero rules, as they are, is to remove the need for homologation specials. We all saw what happened in BTCC (touring cars) when the Alfa and BMW teams had special 'road car' wings and adjustable splitters - exactly the same would happen in GT racing.
By allowing a fairly controlled aero package there's no need to homologate tricky bodywork, which would cost a considerable amount of money. Back to the topic. I like this electronically controlled engine initiative a lot - it'll save an awful lot of money. From a personal point of view, we're currently converting our Mosler to GT3 spec, which involves changing to the LS7 engine. That engine, in a crate from GM, costs £8.5k and creates around 520bhp without restrictors. To make a GT2 version (on twin 29mm restrictors) of our regular 5.7 create that amount of power would cost, as I remember, £20k. The LS7 revs lower, is more drivable, needs less rebuilds and has more power and torque. Free lunch, you might say - but if we were to run it in a conventional GT2 manner we'd have to spend a fortune on development just to get that power back. I'm all for initiatives that help us, as teams, to compete without spending vast amounts on engines - often the biggest single expenditure on a car. The technology is now available to restrict engines without merely choking them, so lets embrace it. |
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17 Nov 2006, 12:31 (Ref:1768537) | #69 | |||
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The Corvette C6.r's are winter testing in Sebring this week. The new rules imposed for 2007 were to slow the cars down. Well as good engineers do , the cars are now faster and more nimble then last year. |
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17 Nov 2006, 13:44 (Ref:1768593) | #70 | ||
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Pole Position for the "G2" Ferrari F550 Maranello 'Evo': 1 55 987
at 0.080 and 0.089 the 2 Aston Martin BMS Pirelli |
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17 Nov 2006, 14:26 (Ref:1768625) | #71 | |||
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Yes, okay, let the "big dogs run". Then you have a four-car GT1 class in ALMS and declining numbers in FIA GT. Like now... |
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17 Nov 2006, 15:08 (Ref:1768649) | #72 | |
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I'm still somewhere in between Bob and the rest here...
Completely against air restrictors for all the reasons mentioned above. There are better ways to equalize engine performance a bit, that don't encourage the big players to develop pointless high-tech, relatively low performance engines. IF that is desirable... My biggest objection is that the current engines have very little to do with any prod. engine. I'm not fully against add-on aero devices like wings and diffusers. I already said enough about wings, look above. A flat bottom and diffuser aren't that expensive to develop. And cars that run that low to the ground will inevitable use its underbody for downforce, so maybe they should look into that. If the cars run just a bit higher, I guarantee you that tiny diffuser won't yield slot-car like handling by a long shot. But ideally I would like them to stick to the stock underbody. They should pay more attention to that 'dark side of the moon' on prod. cars anyway. Come to think of it, maybe Svierges post best reflects my opinion. 'Remove restrictors and it will be turbo powered cars that dominate.' True. Turbo engines would pretty much dominate every racing series, if they were allowed to, I think. So restrict them |
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17 Nov 2006, 17:37 (Ref:1768725) | #73 | |||
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17 Nov 2006, 17:45 (Ref:1768736) | #74 | ||||
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"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
18 Nov 2006, 06:28 (Ref:1768985) | #75 | |||
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