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Old 24 Nov 2022, 15:26 (Ref:4134737)   #226
Bcarr6
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Bcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Some interesting articles about a possible ADAC purchase of DTM floating round today, some more fancifully fleshed out than others.

Taking the consideration of how real the rumour is, it is an interesting topic.

I can see why ADAC could benefit from controlling DTM. The DTM has real strong PRO focused entries, and a next to capacity grid. ADAC has been struggling the last few years comparatively, and the threat of a strong GTWC, even GT Open remains.

A potential format that would make sense to me would be as follows:

ADAC DTM: Single Driver PRO series
ADAC GT: Dual Driver Pro-Am, Young Talent series
ADAC GT4: Dual Driver GT4 series
ADAC TCR: The existing TCR series

Dont know if those would all fit on the same weekend

It would also fix the feeder series a little bit. ADAC GT4 and DTM Trophy are both on the low sit for grid counts, a merger there would be quite beneficial.
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Old 24 Nov 2022, 16:03 (Ref:4134741)   #227
Matt K
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On one hand that would be beneficial, would kind of put the German motor racing in order and eliminate the current confusion of both championships claiming to be the premier level category in Germany.
But, I can't see Berger & co selling DTM that easily unless it was guaranteed that the DTM would be the top of the ladder (which in practice it is anyway) and ADAC GT being sort of a second class.

Btw - where have you seen such rumours? Personally, haven't heard that.
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Old 24 Nov 2022, 19:12 (Ref:4134749)   #228
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On one hand that would be beneficial, would kind of put the German motor racing in order and eliminate the current confusion of both championships claiming to be the premier level category in Germany.
But, I can't see Berger & co selling DTM that easily unless it was guaranteed that the DTM would be the top of the ladder (which in practice it is anyway) and ADAC GT being sort of a second class.

Btw - where have you seen such rumours? Personally, haven't heard that.
https://sportscar365.com/other-serie...l-series-sale/

Honestly, I think GT Masters is a far better series than DTM.
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Old 24 Nov 2022, 22:47 (Ref:4134763)   #229
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Now Motorsport Total is writing about it as well and I tend to trust them, however, nothing is stated very clearly so the outcome is not yet settled.

As for what is better, well, that's a normal thing, one will say ADAC GT, the other DTM. The fact is that since the DTM switched to the GT3 regulations, ADAC GT saw a drop in the grid numbers and quite a number of top teams have either switched to the DTM or at least join DTM in addition to their ADAC GT commitments. That's not to say there are no top teams and drivers in ADAC but probably there are more in the DTM.

The fact is that the DTM is a lot more globally renowned, however, still the biggest following is in Germany and countries 'around' as was seen at Portimao or Imola. Not sure about the on track attendance comparison (would be nice to know it btw) and the TV/online audience, however I bet that more people watched DTM. Looking at social media numbers, the DTM is far ahead although that doesn't necessarily have to be that 'objective.'

So in terms of the championship's position, DTM is probably clearly ahead, although there are likely to be people who would argue with me on that, for example saying that ADAC GT is the 'official' German GT Championship and looking at the SRO universe it's probably their strongest national championship. But anyway, my view is still that the DTM is clearly above, and teams (not all of them I suppose) seem to say that from the commercial perspective DTM means a lot more.

But, which is 'better'? I've always followed DTM and enjoyed that (despite frustrations here and there) but have never been a huge fan of GT racing (I mean sharing the car, you know, the 'typical' GT) so for me it's an easy pick although there was a time I was watching ADAC GT and enjoying that somewhat - what was always difficult for me was that it was the time of way more than 30 cars on the grid + some of the drivers were dropping during the season, being replaced by others, etc and sometimes I was struggling with following who is who and where.
But anyway, I imagine for die-hard GT fans, DTM will never be an option.

In an ideal world, DTM has their own ruleset, maybe more touring car-ish than in the years preceding switch to GT3, something like Supercars (I've always been fond of a fantasy idea of DTM being sort of European Supercars) while ADAC GT is an undisputed top (and only) GT3 series in Germany. But the motorsport stage is shrinking and that's the result. Taking this into consideration, joining forces of DTM and ADAC would probably make sense.
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Old Yesterday, 13:33 (Ref:4134879)   #230
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DTM is an option for me, but I cannot stand the arrogance and the presentation of the series.

Their series collapsed because it was poorly managed. They said they'd do GT3 Pro, for no reason other than it'd be cool. Everyone said "hey remember that poorly managed stuff?" and they agreed to do GT3. They then spent the whole of 2021 saying things like Engle was a rookie, and it's Europes premium GT3 sportscar series. Like, wtf, you've switched to this because you failed to manage your series, and how you think you're the best? and claiming these factory GT3 drivers are rookies?

DTM isn't even the best GT3 series in Germany, frankly. And if you want to include NLS, it isn't even second best. Yet they have arrogance which suggests the series is more successful and more popular than it actually is.

I will take ADAC GT Masters over DTM every day of the week in their current formats. The only thing DTM brings to the party is Norisring.
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Old Yesterday, 17:22 (Ref:4134902)   #231
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Well, as for the rookie question guys like Bortolotti or Stolz were rookies in the DTM and it's a fact. If I'm correct, a rookie is someone who's in their first year in the series (in the motorsport context), and guys like Bortolotti or Stolz were indeed in their first year in the DTM. Yes, they were already big names, very experienced in GT3 and not only but no one took it away from them. They were just doing their debut seasons in the DTM, that's it. As for Engel, he did a few seasons in the old era of the DTM so no way anyone called him a rookie. (If you meant him anyway).

Again, as for what is the best is a very subjective thing. Why is the DTM third in the order behind ADAC and NLS? That's not something you can measure, I have no interest in NLS and not a big one for ADAC GT so for me such a "ranking" would look differently. It's subjective.

But, entry figures show that the DTM clearly must be doing something well if the likes of Grasser, Bernhard or HRT are moving here with factory drivers and factory support.

And Norisring is not the only thing that the DTM brings, not for me anyway. However, yes, if I had a choice of choosing either a GT3 DTM or the 'old' DTM, I'd go for the latter 100%. After all, GT3 cars are not as exciting and the ABS and such things are pretty disappointing - they have other advantages over the old DTM cars, however.
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Old Yesterday, 20:00 (Ref:4134907)   #232
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DTM is an option for me, but I cannot stand the arrogance and the presentation of the series.

Their series collapsed because it was poorly managed. They said they'd do GT3 Pro, for no reason other than it'd be cool. Everyone said "hey remember that poorly managed stuff?" and they agreed to do GT3. They then spent the whole of 2021 saying things like Engle was a rookie, and it's Europes premium GT3 sportscar series. Like, wtf, you've switched to this because you failed to manage your series, and how you think you're the best? and claiming these factory GT3 drivers are rookies?

DTM isn't even the best GT3 series in Germany, frankly. And if you want to include NLS, it isn't even second best. Yet they have arrogance which suggests the series is more successful and more popular than it actually is.

I will take ADAC GT Masters over DTM every day of the week in their current formats. The only thing DTM brings to the party is Norisring.
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Old Yesterday, 20:05 (Ref:4134908)   #233
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I can imagine DTM under ADAC management will become a electric series. Remember the Schaeffler electric demo car?





With current GT3, GT4 and TCR as support series.
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