Renault doesn't want Webber?

Raven · 7 Aug 2006, 16:49 (Ref:1676757)

That's the only conclusion I can draw from his Red Bull announcement.

Webber tested for Renault in 2001 and has been under Briatore's management all the time he's been racing.

Surely, if they wanted him, they would have signed him. Now appeared to be the perfect time to draft him into the team.

Renault must know something we don't, ie. Webber is really not all that good.

Nado · 7 Aug 2006, 17:02 (Ref:1676770)

The other conclusion is that Flavio isn't resigning for the team in 2007.

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 17:05 (Ref:1676773)

How many Webber threads do we need? Anyway:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

Renault must know something we don't, ie. Webber is really not all that good.

No, it doesn't mean this at all. In terms of drivers everything is relative not absolute as you describe it.

It means Renault have someone who they feel is better. Or have already signed someone before they knew Webber was available. I think the former and the driver will be Kimi or Heikki.

Kimi is undoubtadly to my mind better than Mark. Heikki is potentially a big star and the chance to realise that is a gamble they may have chosen to take.

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 17:06 (Ref:1676775)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanh Ha

The other conclusion is that Flavio isn't resigning for the team in 2007.

I don't see how this makes a difference? The choice is still the same.

Raven · 7 Aug 2006, 17:14 (Ref:1676784)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

It means Renault have someone who they feel is better.

It's the same thing isn't it?

And I doubt that they would've been unaware of Webber's contractual situation.

Like I say, if they'd wanted him, they would've signed him.

Nado · 7 Aug 2006, 17:18 (Ref:1676790)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I don't see how this makes a difference? The choice is still the same.

Webber may not have felt comfortable going to Renault without his boss there.

The other could be they're still hanging out for Kimi and Webber wasn't able to wait any longer. There's also the rumour that Heikki is guaranteed a race seat.

kipper · 7 Aug 2006, 17:29 (Ref:1676798)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

It's the same thing isn't it?

Not really. They could consider Webber to be very good, but that Raikkonen is better and that Kovaleinen has the potential to be a major star which is worth taking a risk in employing him over Webber. Plus also, Raikkonen has demonstrated that he is capable of winning Grands Prix.

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 17:31 (Ref:1676800)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

It's the same thing isn't it?

Let us compare:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

...Webber is really not all that good.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by me

Renault have someone who they feel is better.

One is an absolute statement that is incorrect (IMHO) and will set the forum on fire when Australia wakes up. The other a relative statement that is a fair assessment of the situation (IMHO).

Quote:

And I doubt that they would've been unaware of Webber's contractual situation.

Correct, Flav would have known what was going on. However Williams had until the end of July to excercise an option - not even Flav would know for certain that Williams wouldn't take it. And, as I said, I don't think it was this case of the two alternatives.

Quote:

Like I say, if they'd wanted him, they would've signed him.

I didn't disagree with that, just the emphasis that Webber is really not all that good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanh Ha

Webber may not have felt comfortable going to Renault without his boss there.

His 'boss' isn't at Red Bull Racing either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanh Ha

The other could be they're still hanging out for Kimi and Webber wasn't able to wait any longer. There's also the rumour that Heikki is guaranteed a race seat.

It is this IMHO. They want Kimi more or Heikki more.

Odd that Fisi was signed so early. I don't see the need for that.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 7 Aug 2006, 17:43 (Ref:1676808)

I'd bet the real reason for Webber at Red Bull is that Flavio makes more money this way. Doesn't Flav manage Heikki aswell?

Two F1 drivers in paid seats would net a tidy sum.

Raven · 7 Aug 2006, 17:50 (Ref:1676818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

One is an absolute statement that is incorrect (IMHO) and will set the forum on fire when Australia wakes up. The other a relative statement that is a fair assessment of the situation (IMHO).

Saying that Renault feel other drivers are better than Webber = Renault feel Webber is not all that good in comparison to others.

What am I missing here?

903cc · 7 Aug 2006, 17:51 (Ref:1676821)

This Sucks... In effect he should have stayed with Jaguar.

Ok everybody move along.. No world champion here.. Nothing to see.

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 18:25 (Ref:1676854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

Saying that Renault feel other drivers are better than Webber = Renault feel Webber is not all that good in comparison to others.

What am I missing here?

You did not say the above highlighted part in your first post. Hence it meant something different as kipper and I pointed out.

As you've changed that we aren't really disagreeing. Yes, Renault wanted someone other than Webber. Hence they didn't sign him!

jhansen · 7 Aug 2006, 18:35 (Ref:1676859)

Well that was fun.

It would be much easier to prognosticate if we knew Kimi's plans.

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 18:40 (Ref:1676863)

To progwhat?

Yes, I think the discussion is short if it is Kimi that Renault have. However if it is Heikki then it is an interesting choice between huge potential with risk and known quantity.

Knowlesy · 7 Aug 2006, 18:42 (Ref:1676865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 903cc

This Sucks... In effect he should have stayed with Jaguar.

Err.....hello?

Red Bull have Adrian Newey and other top designers poached from McLaren, a much bigger budget than Jaguar had, no doubt a top engine, Bridgestone experience. What more do you want?

Red Bull could well be the place to be not far down the line.

jhansen · 7 Aug 2006, 18:42 (Ref:1676866)

Which is why I agree with you Adam, the choice to sign Fissi so early was unnecessary.

Raven · 7 Aug 2006, 18:51 (Ref:1676874)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

You did not say the above highlighted part in your first post. Hence it meant something different as kipper and I pointed out.

As you've changed that we aren't really disagreeing. Yes, Renault wanted someone other than Webber. Hence they didn't sign him!

This is an F1 forum isn't it - what else would I have been referring to other than MW and other F1 drivers?

Could you really not comprehend the point I was trying to make, or was all that nitpicking just to make yourself feel clever?

Knowlesy · 7 Aug 2006, 18:55 (Ref:1676878)

No Raven, I felt exactly the same way and no doubt half of Australia will have. It wasn't a statement of total clarity, let's just say.

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 18:56 (Ref:1676880)

OK I apologise, I just misunderstood. My initial reply was based on this misunderstanding and I was only trying explain what I was basing my reply on and why I was defending Mark Webber from an attack. No malice, or put down was intended, only a desire to clarify the point.

You have now clarified what you meant, thank you, and I agree with you.

Marbot · 7 Aug 2006, 19:00 (Ref:1676883)

So in the end,Renault didn't want Webber because they want Kimi,or because they couldn't have Webber because he was already signed for RedBull before Fisi was signed for Renault.But if Ferrari have signed Kimi,is Heikki the right foil for Fisi?And if Schumacher retires,who'll partner Massa if Kimi is at Renault?

I think i'll just stick to the weather!

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 19:04 (Ref:1676888)

I don't think Webber signed for RedBull before Fisi signed for Renault. Webber couldn't sign anything before August (although I know that isn't technically true, but it couldn't be finalised). I get the impression the Red Bull thing happened quite quickly (?).

Marbot · 7 Aug 2006, 19:08 (Ref:1676892)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I don't think Webber signed for RedBull before Fisi signed for Renault. Webber couldn't sign anything before August (although I know that isn't technically true, but it couldn't be finalised). I get the impression the Red Bull thing happened quite quickly (?).

You know what i mean.They all have talks and they say that they can't sign anything until so and so has signed for whatsname,but it's pretty much a done deal anyways.

And let's face facts.Who wouldn't want to be first in the queue to drive an Adrian Newey car with either a Renault or Ferrari engine in the back of it!

**Adam43** · 7 Aug 2006, 19:18 (Ref:1676903)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

You know what i mean.They all have talks and they say that they can't sign anything until so and so has signed for whatsname,but it's pretty much a done deal anyways.

Oh definetly. Technically they can do lots of things first. If he did do this he did well to keep it quite. I didn't hear a Red Bull rumour until last week.

Quote:

And let's face facts.Who wouldn't want to be first in the queue to drive an Adrian Newey car with either a Renault or Ferrari engine in the back of it!

An exciting prospect, definetly. Although it will be good to beat Ferrari, Renault, McLaren, Honda and... It has potential though.

shambles · 7 Aug 2006, 20:09 (Ref:1676952)

Their is always a big risk, especially when you consider Newey's recent F1 design attempts, and the lack of continuity with them. A Newey car, should be an exciting prospect - but with him I get the impression, based on say 2002, 2004 and to a certain extent this year - that he is inconsistant, which is bizarre. Maybe his way of working will be more suited to Red Bull - either way, I feel it is a big gamble for Mark Webber.

Best of Luck to him though, on paper the move is exciting.

ralf fan · 7 Aug 2006, 20:26 (Ref:1676976)

Maybe it was a case of Renault not meeting Webber's pay demands....and with an option to go to an Adrian Newey designed car vs a post Alonso Renault...RBR sounded better to Mark....

or

Maybe Renault still have a chance of signing Kimi and Webber couldnt wait that long to decide his future...

or....

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