FIA Formula 2 to return?

[Mekola]

Why no points for FIA Formula E?

[S griffin]

FIA saw it more as an alternative series or a series for mostly F1 rejects probably. Anyway the organisers of the series aren't concerned about not being included

[Go_For_Pole]

Well yes Agag did his best to downplay the issue but still it is an oxymoron that WEC is eligible for points and FE is not

[WSR Fan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118147

Looks like we'll know the details of the new FIA F2 by the summer.

[gomick]

Why?
What is the point of GP3 & GP2 then... Too many freakin open wheeler feeder series!

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by gomick

Why?
What is the point of GP3 & GP2 then... Too many freakin open wheeler feeder series!

GP2 & GP3 are Berenie's babies F4,F3 & F2 are all FIA.

However I think that the FIA have got to get at least 2 of the major classes below F1 to compine for F2 to be a success i.e. two from GP2, WSR annd Superformula in Japan. If all were to use the same chassis rules maybe with different engines and tyres might be a starting point.

I think starting a new series from scratch is only going to add to an overly crowed market place.

[tux]

The FIA seem pretty hell bent on destroying everything that is good within motorsport.

FIA WTCC, WRC, F3, LMP2-2017, FORMULA FORD

[10TENTHS]

Originally Posted by tux

The FIA seem pretty hell bent on destroying everything that is good within motorsport.

FIA WTCC, WRC, F3, LMP2-2017, FORMULA FORD

Formula Ford is alive and well in North America. Then again racing there is cheaper anyway, and Mazda's open wheel and sportscar ladders provide a merit-based route to the top.

[tux]

Yeah i dont know where i got Formula Ford from.

[10TENTHS]

Originally Posted by tux

Yeah i dont know where i got Formula Ford from.

I guess FF was the odd man out in Europe, with handling characteristics that were completely different to the downforce-based cars above (like F3).

[kurski]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118326
Stefano Domenicali says the incoming Formula 2 championship he is overseeing for the FIA must feature physically-demanding cars.

[Aguri]

Domenicali has said that the new F2 will likely use the SuperGT/DTM engine formula, potentially with ERS as well.

So 2L Turbos. This means potential engine manufacturers are BMW, Merc, Audi, Honda, Toyota and Nissan.

Wonder if they will just copy the SF chassis as it already accommodates this engine or if they will go for a new chassis.

[Formulahistory]

That would be a good move because then the manufactors had a good place for their Junior programms.

[chunterer]

I guess with a turbo lump they are keeping things in sync with F1, albeit it would be a bigger displacement engine!

I kind of hope they use a powerful normally aspirated V8, or a 'revvy' v6?

However if the series is aiming squarely for GP2/3.5 territory it needs to be different enough and cost effective enough to attract the entries required.

Also depends on how far manufacturers are prepared to get involved, I.E will they run works teams for their driver development programmes?

[wolfhound]

To me using an engine formula that already exists makes a lot of sence as the manufacturers should be able to lower costs as they have more units to cover them over.

There are 2 more parts to getting F2 right.

One is to try to replace some of the existing catagories that are in at a similar level i.e. GP2, R3.5 and Superformula.

The other is to come up with a chassis formula that will be cost controlled and produce good racing that is challanging to drive.
Something along the lines of LMP2 might be the way to go in terms of cost control but open wheel single seaters.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

To me using an engine formula that already exists makes a lot of sence as the manufacturers should be able to lower costs as they have more units to cover them over.

There are 2 more parts to getting F2 right.

One is to try to replace some of the existing catagories that are in at a similar level i.e. GP2, R3.5 and Superformula.

The other is to come up with a chassis formula that will be cost controlled and produce good racing that is challanging to drive.
Something along the lines of LMP2 might be the way to go in terms of cost control but open wheel single seaters.

Yes, I think so re engines, also I sincerely hope that they make the chassis open and do not make it single chassis as with everything else these days. That might keep costs 'competitive'?

[bella]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Something along the lines of LMP2 might be the way to go in terms of cost control but open wheel single seaters.

it'd be nice but there's plenty of design avenues to take with lmp2, even if some of the open cockpit ones are starting to look like single seaters with bits tacked on (signatech, i'm looking at you).

with a single seater there's just nothing to vary aside from producing spectacularly fiddly wings and flappy bits for the cars. f3 of around the 2005 vintage had a lot of scope for team lead development and variation but the result was daft budgets. a shame, because that was proper engineering.

they do need to go for a design that's different enough to break the advantage that the old chassis supplier has though, if they want to keep it open to different chassis. imo that's been the stumbling block for f3.

[chunterer]

FOM has been given the rights to run F2.

Not good!!!

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by bella

with a single seater there's just nothing to vary aside from producing spectacularly fiddly wings and flappy bits for the cars. f3 of around the 2005 vintage had a lot of scope for team lead development and variation but the result was daft budgets. a shame, because that was proper engineering.

In this mood, it isn't better stimulate the rules that could allow to run different models of cars and get rid of one-make formula? I remember in their first years, Coloni's Italian F3000 allowed to run both Lola B99/50 and B02/50 cars, for example, in order to have more possible entries.

[S griffin]

+1

[Roninho]

Originally Posted by Mekola

In this mood, it isn't better stimulate the rules that could allow to run different models of cars and get rid of one-make formula? I remember in their first years, Coloni's Italian F3000 allowed to run both Lola B99/50 and B02/50 cars, for example, in order to have more possible entries.

In itself i think it would be a good idea, but it doesnt match how F2 is positioning itself. The EUro3000/italian F3000 series was a serie for drivers without a decent budget, and part of the image of the series was that it was ''cheap'. Different type of models fits that image.

F2 wants to position itself as the #1 junior level championship, they are not going to win the competition with Gp2, WSR, F3 etc. etc. if they position themselves as a serie that needs different models to get a decent grid.

It's just a weird system in general, drivers always scream that it is all to expensive, but the old F2 wasnt a succes in part due to their cost control. The old F2 of 2009-2012 didn't work because the talents who did have money preferred to be in a serie where they could spend their budget. And because the talents with money where not in the serie, F2 was seen as a competition that lacked the real talents. As a result the talents with less budget didnt want to be there as well, and prefered backmarker teams in other series over F2.

It's like pricing of your product, some gifts/products are sold better when it's priced at $20 in stead of $2.

A shame though, i would think that a pyramid with F2 2009-2012 at the top and Formula Palmer like formula below that would be great in terms of costs Formula 2 was 200k GBP per season, FPA was 80k GBP. If you are a real talent in karting a good manager should be able to land the money for FPA.

[chunterer]

The old F2 wasn't a quick or powerful enough car either though?

I can't see new F2 joining GP2 and F3.5. It will probably replace GP2.

GP2 organisers will be running it after all.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I can't see new F2 joining GP2 and F3.5. It will probably replace GP2.
GP2 organisers will be running it after all.

Spot on.

[ptclaus98]

What if we took the 3.5 cars on Michelin tires, and the GP2 cars on Pirellis, and even maybe the Formula Nippon cars on Bridgestones/Dunlops/Yokohamas/Kumhos/whatever they run, put them on the same grid and let them all race? It might not be the most competitive thing ever, but at least it might be compelling to see drivers out driving their equipment on the rare occasion. Besides, it's not like them all having the same car has made it easier for the lesser funded to find themselves in F1.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

What if we took the 3.5 cars on Michelin tires, and the GP2 cars on Pirellis, and even maybe the Formula Nippon cars on Bridgestones/Dunlops/Yokohamas/Kumhos/whatever they run, put them on the same grid and let them all race? It might not be the most competitive thing ever, but at least it might be compelling to see drivers out driving their equipment on the rare occasion. Besides, it's not like them all having the same car has made it easier for the lesser funded to find themselves in F1.

Interesting idea! From a spectator point of view it would be a bit like a WEC for single seaters!

Nippon car would be the quickest I guess followed by GP2.

Would you envisage an equivalency aspect to get them all on similar pace?