The purest driver out there?

[oziengineer]

Personally, I don't have a clue. I think of all the drivers that Kimi would be the quickest, but what are your thoughts?

[Dutton]

Define "purist".

[Super Tourer]

Needs a definition.

Do you mean pure as in a 'pure racer' or pure as in technically adept in all area's?

[mstar]

well alain prost in my eyes had the most pure driving style.
Only one on the grid now who comes a bit close is JB with his calm driving style. People watch him in a GP/Testing and you will know what i am talking about

[Kicking-back]

This thread is unlikely to get anywhere - because it's impossible to define!

[Dutton]

Or we could get stuck into a good old fashioned circular argument?

It is arguable that question is in itself compounding the notion that wwe will not get anywhere, by the nature of a circular argument - but the process could be taken to be a form of progress, until it has reach the point where we start the circle again.

All depends on definition, you see......

[mstar]

exactly

[garcon]

This is one of the great things about F1 - you can have a discussion that is entirely subjective, and has no need to rely on statistics and success rates and such.

Two steps then - define "purest" (which is perhaps different to "purist"). And then tell who is the "purest".

To me, the purest driver is one who is naturally talented. The most obvious way to tell a pure driver is that he is quickest when he is smoothest, and when under pressure to go quicker does not over drive the car.

I'll need to think who best fits that description though...

[BootsOntheSide]

In terms of being able to get into anything, in any situation, and drive it at 110% commitment, taking risks, making the most of a bad situation, and just driving on instinct, I'm inclined to say Montoya.

In other areas, Kimi clearly has technical astuteness and patience, Jenson is fast and calculating, and Michael can organise a team so as that everyone gives the most to the cause.

[garcon]

Following on from my definition of "purest", I think the benchmark is Senna.

Jenson Button has natural speed, but he still lacks a certain inate ability when it comes to actually racing.

Schumacher's style is in many ways more analytical - he judges the car's limits then uses his incredible skill to keep the car just on that knife-edge.

Montoya at his best has something close, but he still tends to over drive the car under pressure.

Hakkinen had it I think, and Kimi is showing signs that he's got it.

[T0MAT01]

I feel Alonso needs a mention here too, I've read that he can adapt to any car and change his driving style to suit its flaws, not sure that he's as smooth as Button though.

[Dutton]

oops. apologies for my typo in my earlier post, when I asked for the definition of "purist", I did indeed mean "purest".

THe two are unquestionably different things.

[mstar]

well as alain prost once said, a good RACE pace driver can hit there limit of the corner and keep to it by hitting the the apex in a race, lap after lap and never miss the optimum line, never losing time. Good race pace drivers can go through corners same as before lap after lap and being consitent. Drivers with erratic race pace (by copuple of tenths) cannot be consistent enough through all corners to maximise lap time as they NEVER get to there limit/cars limit lap after lap.

shumi is a example of this watch him through becketts in the race

[spider]

Jenson is incredibly smooth, as is Ralf actually. To watch a driver through Copse and into Becketts at Silverstone gives you an idea of how smooth the drivers are - Sato and Massa are very spectacular, while watching Ralf, Button and Schuey through there is incredible. I was at Silverstone when Kimi was testing the 19B for the first time and you could hear him going later and later on the brakes and letting the car drift more and more as he got really confident, and was eventually almost as impressive as Schuey by the end of the day. Every lap, so smooth, so calculating, getting on the brakes earlier, for a shorter period of time and on the power earlier, drifting the car out wide and over the kerbs. Don't underestimate his raw pure speed, he just knows how to fine tune his and the cars speed, but he has the ability to naturally know how to get the maximum out of his car.

Trulli is a very naturally fast driver, with a pure and smooth style.

The smoothest though IMO are Ralf and JB. The fastest though is either Michael or Kimi IMO.

[mstar]

My oberservation at the Spanish GP this year at the Gp:

I agree jenson is the smoothest driver, never makes mistakes in corners VERY consistent in the corner lap after lap. Sato not as smooth and consisitent as i saw him run deep twice.

Alonso, all busy turing in, use's enourmous turn in almost like he is suffering from understeer!! and rings the neck of the car to get the nose in. In the race he was bang on, same change of direction never has any drama's in the first corner no outbraking himself in the race.

Monty - aggresive turn in and i get the impression more brutal with the throttle as he seems to use a lot of curb on the exit of the corner (maybe use's tyres more??)

kimi - never saw much and the mac was not good.

[spider]

mstar, our posts crossed over, and I totally agree. Schuey is almost robotic, in the way he is identically fast every lap, visibly and audibly faster than anyone else. Everyone just stood in silence watching Michael every lap, everyone admiring just how impressively consistent and fast the man is.

[mstar]

I was at silverstone your right the mclaren was AWESOME in becketts in DC's and KIMI's hands, i just thought that the BAR was not "hooked up" as good as the mac. Jenson had the commitment but seemed he was on the limit of the car, sato also seemed more brutel in becketts, but overall i thougt button quicker of the two purely as he was smoother.

I thought trulli was good, his lines in becketts was really percise.
Alonso was same as montoya, really brutal on turn in and wanting to blast through becketts withough worrying to get out of shape.

[mstar]

yes spider i agree with you on that one! michael is very good at maximising the limit on a corner lap after lap, same as kimi,alonso,button, trulli.

[RWC]

I too think it's not a dud thread.
It does get us thinking about how we judge drivers
I tend to think in terms of "completeness"-someone who is shateringly fast with no faults.
All the greats come close of course but none are absolutally perfect.

Then there is the issue of how much of a risk taking speed machine do you want in a driver?

[Aysedasi]

I've no idea what "pure" or "purest" actually means. Depends on your view of what motor racing is (or should be) about. For me, I emphasise the racing aspect of "motor racing", so the "purest" driver of all for me has to be Senna. With the possible exception of Gilles, I don't think anyone else had the sheer overwhelming desire to race (on every lap of race and practice) as Senna did.

But, as always, its a matter of opinion. If we're thinking of "purest" in terms of the whole package, speed, mechanical sympathy, strategy, it has to be Prost for me, closely followed by Schumacher.


Sorry - my apologies - you're talking about out there "now"?

Oh dear, I am disappointed. In that case, it has to be Schuey.

[mstar]

Agree I think Prost senna once did say if he could drive like another driver it would be him

[sonic]

Originally posted by mstar
Alonso, all busy turing in, use's enourmous turn in almost like he is suffering from understeer!! and rings the neck of the car to get the nose in. In the race he was bang on, same change of direction never has any drama's in the first corner no outbraking himself in the race.

I really noticed this at silverstone the other day - I think its a technique hes developed to get around the cars weird handling cos he never drove like that in karts.

the back of that car just never, ever comes unstuck - in fact when it does... ...he spins!

as for my 'purest' driver out there right now, I define this in the sense that given an empty, dry track and to do 50 laps as fast as possible I would say its a toss up between Button and the metronmic TGF.

[mstar]

sonic, make no mistake alonso is FAST u can see some drivers in testing and u know they are "on it" and alonso is mega in the last 2 corners in barcalona (well trulli too) if someone goes and watch's the race/testing see the speed the renaults come out of those corners alonso is frightening oversteer on the exits due to his THROW it in style, but he just fights it, and hangs on. Saw him in free practise he gets loose twice on a 4 lap run but just blasts his way out of trouble NO WAY was he backing off. Don't think it was the quickest but certainly the most commited for sure

[BIGMOUTH]

Schumacher - easily!!

[Glen]

Ow! I just really hurt myself falling off the chair when Bigmouth said something that I agree with!