New car revealed.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Here's hoping, for 2013, when Penske, Chevrolet and Lotus develop bodies, they will come up with something more functional looking..

When? If?

Good luck on that.

Anyone that was interested will not be now thanks to constant fiddling with what they are doing.

[nickyf1]

Well, here's hoping... There is still a faint glimmer of hope...

There is... isn't there?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Well, here's hoping... There is still a faint glimmer of hope...

There is... isn't there?

They need to open up the competition, not just to multiple engines but multiple chassis; the aero-kit thing is just a short termist fudge; reminds me of Tony Blair and New Labour.

[nickyf1]

Och.... Just a sad sad situation.

Indycar should strive to be the best! Not some show going after TV ratings, style and silly gimmicks, and then claiming to be the best in the world in the usual PR nonsense.

The very fact that the Dallara kit was designed with ''style'' in mind says it all. You can't manufacture a great series. Good things just.. work. But, as we have seen with so many racing series, good things don't last forever.

In fact, all of the racing world is going this way. Its all about the ''show''. Racing should be thrilling without trying, without flaunting, that is what attracts the people to the sport.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Och.... Just a sad sad situation.

Indycar should strive to be the best! Not some show going after TV ratings, style and silly gimmicks, and then claiming to be the best in the world in the usual PR nonsense.

The very fact that the Dallara kit was designed with ''style'' in mind says it all. You can't manufacture a great series. Good things just.. work. But, as we have seen with so many racing series, good things don't last forever.

In fact, all of the racing world is going this way. Its all about the ''show''. Racing should be thrilling without trying, without flaunting, that is what attracts the people to the sport.

Couldn't agree more. Look at F1, half of next season goes to Sky and Murdoch and the cars get more specy, with gimmicks like DRS because they can't overtake.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Well, here's hoping... There is still a faint glimmer of hope...

There is... isn't there?

How many turned up for new hampshire today?

There is no hope at all left for American open wheel racing. None. It is 20th century history dying a lingering death in 2011.

[gttouring]

i saw that farce.
ovals are tough, but what was wrong here i don't know, Helio spinning? dario and takuma getting into weird contact...
what a bizarro end and a goofy race- the cameras are all set up for cup i think they need to go to a different lens to increase the sense of speed for indycars for the broadcasts...
this was pretty terrible though. and barnhardt really doesn't seem to be in touch with racing at all, he has been perched in the IRL and hasn't really gotten dirty down there it seems in the trenches- and that big fella isn't racing karts or club racers any time to be able to really control races if he has no relevant and current exposure he seems ill placed.

[PabloTeK]

Has Barnhart got any experience as a Clerk of the Course etc? If it was me I'd want either someone with that qualification and a lot of experience, or even better, an FIA-level race director!

Not saying the guy is stupid or anything (I'd be useless at it), but I think for the top level of racing you need a top-level Clerk...

[Spyder_Monkey]

This is slightly off topic, but I can't seem to find an answer anywhere. This Marshall Pruett article refers to the new car as the "IR12" and the current as the "IR07". But, I haven't been able to find any other references on the internet to the IR07. Everything else points to the current car being the IR05, which debuted in 2003. I can't see any difference in pictures between 2006 and 2007, but maybe it's totally under the skin? Or am I the only one who cares?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyder_Monkey

This is slightly off topic, but I can't seem to find an answer anywhere. This Marshall Pruett article refers to the new car as the "IR12" and the current as the "IR07". But, I haven't been able to find any other references on the internet to the IR07. Everything else points to the current car being the IR05, which debuted in 2003. I can't see any difference in pictures between 2006 and 2007, but maybe it's totally under the skin? Or am I the only one who cares?

You may find this link useful:

http://www.orkut.com.br/CommMsgs?cmm...49425654468301

Personally, ICONIC committee should have gone with Lola.

[jondownunder]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Personally, ICONIC committee should have gone with Lola.

Totally agree. I'd be looking forward to next year so much more in anticipation of a field of great looking Lolas. It would be at least one part of the puzzle of getting AOWR back towards where it should be, even if it's merely great aesthetics and awe inspiring cars. Some would argue only existing fans care about such things, and cool looking cars won't win over a new audience, but I don't think that's the whole story.

Instead of Lola we get a comedy pig designed by committee, and the people in charge show they couldn't care less what their few remaining fans are crying out for. Wish they'd admit all that ugly excess bodywork is to maximise sponsor space. From what I've heard from Cotman and Dallara, there's zero chance of the airbox going now.

From what I gather the Dallara thing was always going to be a done deal. Sounds like extremely shady and anti-competitive business practice.

[gttouring]

I saw the new released renault 3.5 world series car. Wow. Indy car chould haave gone with that. Isn't it dallara? No I can't be it's too good looking.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

Totally agree. I'd be looking forward to next year so much more in anticipation of a field of great looking Lolas. It would be at least one part of the puzzle of getting AOWR back towards where it should be, even if it's merely great aesthetics and awe inspiring cars. Some would argue only existing fans care about such things, and cool looking cars won't win over a new audience, but I don't think that's the whole story.

Instead of Lola we get a comedy pig designed by committee, and the people in charge show they couldn't care less what their few remaining fans are crying out for. Wish they'd admit all that ugly excess bodywork is to maximise sponsor space. From what I've heard from Cotman and Dallara, there's zero chance of the airbox going now.

From what I gather the Dallara thing was always going to be a done deal. Sounds like extremely shady and anti-competitive business practice.

I think you're right it was a done deal with Dallara.

The thing that get's me is the backtracking on the aero-kits and now with the retention of the air box very likely, why a turbo engined car would need one is baffling, is the rumour that there won't be turbo engines next year either; hence the airbox.

[Jacques Rabbit]

I know it's a bad attitude, but I just don't see how I can watch an auto race with 20 of those things. The more I see it, the worse it is, every time. You don't think it can look uglier but every new angle, it does.

A spec-series of a Lola or Swift with competing engine suppliers would have been pretty cool as a realistic alternative. I'd like it more than this.

[bjohnsonsmith]

In this article from http://www.racer.com/cotman-new-indy...rticle/209598/

Tony Cottman says the airbox is a turbo-inlet. A turbo-inlet the size of an airbox is going to produce drag. When turbos have been used in the past, in Indy/CART, F1 and Group C, a turbo inlet that size was never used, so why now?

[jondownunder]

I heard Cotman saying (on Trackside August 11th I believe) something like the reason for the fake airbox was they wanted the turbo air inlet(s) to be unaffected by the different aero kit designs... in other words to prevent the aero kit designers from thinking up advanced ways of channeling air into the turbo inlets and gaining significant advantage. Or something along those lines, so don't quote me on that!. I'm not very good with technical stuff. Whatever, it seemed pretty certain he wasn't going to give a damn about any criticism it was getting, the thing's an integral part of the car's design and sounds like it's there to stay.

I'd happily do without the aero-kits (if we even get any takers in 2013) if it could do away with this monstrosity of a 'turbo inlet'. I can't get too excited about the aero kit concept anyway, the rest will still be clearly a Dallara, and surely all the aero-kits will end up looking virtually identical.

There is so much wrong with the look of these cars, the hated air box is only one part. PLEASE IndyCar, look at Lola's much less hideous rear wheel protection and do what needs to be done if you really need this health-and-safety addition.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

I heard Cotman saying (on Trackside August 11th I believe) something like the reason for the fake airbox was they wanted the turbo air inlet(s) to be unaffected by the different aero kit designs... in other words to prevent the aero kit designers from thinking up advanced ways of channeling air into the turbo inlets and gaining significant advantage. Or something along those lines, so don't quote me on that!. I'm not very good with technical stuff. Whatever, it seemed pretty certain he wasn't going to give a damn about any criticism it was getting, the thing's an integral part of the car's design and sounds like it's there to stay.

I'd happily do without the aero-kits (if we even get any takers in 2013) if it could do away with this monstrosity of a 'turbo inlet'. I can't get too excited about the aero kit concept anyway, the rest will still be clearly a Dallara, and surely all the aero-kits will end up looking virtually identical.

There is so much wrong with the look of these cars, the hated air box is only one part. PLEASE IndyCar, look at Lola's much less hideous rear wheel protection and do what needs to be done if you really need this health-and-safety addition.

What I find really irritating is Lola came up with the idea of aero-kits in the first place and as for the hideous real wheel protection, I thought Swifts Mushroom Buster, which incorporated rear wheel protection, was an excellent idea. This whole Dallara thing seems to have gone off at a tangent.

[gttouring]

Cotman talking down to the fans with the air box turbo inlet bull crap is so condescending. one does not need to be an engineer to understand it is not necessary to look that way to function and a roll hoop integrated into the inlet is one thing but they are not necessarily tied together.
i can hold my feeling that Cotman and Barnhart get lost. yes they are long time names in the operations and have a love for racing but they have lost the plot.
the world is filled with really gorgeous and safe open wheel cars, and Dallara and the current and foreseeable future of Indy car is a disgrace to the speedway and Indy car racing.
really get lost. the double championship has also gotten on my nerves as silly.
the whole thing needs to be blown up now.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gttouring

Cotman talking down to the fans with the air box turbo inlet bull crap is so condescending. one does not need to be an engineer to understand it is not necessary to look that way to function and a roll hoop integrated into the inlet is one thing but they are not necessarily tied together.

Agreed, so what's the point of it, more advertising space or no turbo engines?

[nickyf1]

Swift put some extra ad space on the front of their Formula Nippon cars, and it actually looks very very good. If only the new Indycar had this sort of look about it..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Swift put some extra ad space on the front of their Formula Nippon cars, and it actually looks very very good. If only the new Indycar had this sort of look about it..

This is what beggars belief, the Swift FN09 is tried, tested and successful profuct and yet the ICONIC committee went for another Dallara product, even though their last offering was unpopular. As has been said it was obviously a done deal; so much for promoting American manufacturers, especially in the current economic climate.

[gttouring]

I always did. Like that swift. But almost every option except the delta wing was better. Although in an oval only series I can see the delta working well.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gttouring

I always did. Like that swift. But almost every option except the delta wing was better. Although in an oval only series I can see the delta working well.

The D-Wing's racing at Le Mans next year so that will prove interesting.

[nickyf1]

Its not racing for sure, it is competing against a few other concepts for a spot at Le Mans.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Its not racing for sure, it is competing against a few other concepts for a spot at Le Mans.

I thought the other concepts were nearly as ready as the D-Wing.