MSV F3 Cup

[scott19]

I'm going to be having a bash at this in 2013 in Jame's old car (TOMS). Cars obviously not competitive with modern equipment so will just do a few rounds for fun more than anything but just be nice to drive such a lovely car.

[Memus Racing Design]

Reading this article and it seems that the F3 Cup is the way forward,where else can you get a bloody good chassis that easily achieve's 2.5g cornering and engines that are bullet proof and last dare l say 2 seasons racing,answers please....... Anyway my point is there are cars and spares available if you browse for a while and looks like there own site offers good solid advice and car prices seem very good value for money and if l had £20k to spend l would have NO hesitation......

[jamesl]

Draft 2013 regs now available:

http://www.f3cup.co.uk/compete.aspx

[jamesl]

F3 Cup media day at Brands 20th March Weds

[kipper]

It will be interesting to see how Alice Powell gets on this year's championship.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by kipper

It will be interesting to see how Alice Powell gets on this year's championship.

So was it interesting? After a reasonable start she has looked very ordinary over the last few rounds and occasionally not very good at all.

Also appears to not like taking responsibility, it always seems to be someone else or something else to blame.

To look like an average GP2, 3 or WSR candidate she needed to blitz this but she hasn't, not at all.

F1? Really?

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by REALIST

So was it interesting? After a reasonable start she has looked very ordinary over the last few rounds and occasionally not very good at all.

Also appears to not like taking responsibility, it always seems to be someone else or something else to blame.

To look like an average GP2, 3 or WSR candidate she needed to blitz this but she hasn't, not at all.

F1? Really?

Not sure I understand this comment.She is still leading the championship? Was best of 3 females in 2012 GP3 series.
BTW does anyone know what happened to Kate Impey who was doing this series two years ago-her website has not been updates since then?

[andrewc]

Kat had a very limited budget which was stretched to breaking point when an engine let go (goodbye approx £ 17k), and I believed used the collateral value of her car to finance racing, and the car is now owned by Lanan.

She also struggled with stamina and strength, especially on the busy circuits where there is no long straight to at least relax slightly before the next complex of corners.

She also had more than her fair share of bad luck.

A big shame as she was very quick and exciting in a Jedi.

She currently instructs and does driving experience work for Porsche and misses racing terribly.

---

Most people in F3 Cup were expecting Alice to waltz away with the title and it looked like that at the start of the season and her early season points advantage has been whittled away race by race.

Since then all the other drivers have raised their game considerably and are now matching and beating her on a regular basis, often on a fraction of her budget.

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by REALIST

So was it interesting? After a reasonable start she has looked very ordinary over the last few rounds and occasionally not very good at all.

Also appears to not like taking responsibility, it always seems to be someone else or something else to blame.

To look like an average GP2, 3 or WSR candidate she needed to blitz this but she hasn't, not at all.

F1? Really?

Alice will grab headlines because she is female. That is not a sexist remark; just reality. There are so few female drivers that they will naturally attract attention. There is no reason why a female shouldn't be successful in motor racing and I genuinely believe there must be a super talented female racer out there somewhere that can go all the way but we are yet to see it.

She is currently being talked about as a candidate for this years McLaren Autosport Young Driver Award. Quite frankly that is a joke. To illustrate a point she has also been campaigning in FF1600 in Souley Motorsport Ray GR07 without any success what so ever. Scott Malvern recently turned up and jumped in the same car at a Champion of Brands event & went straight out in qualifying and put it third on the grid and damn nearly won the race (photo finish into 2nd place) and was within a smidgen of the lap record on very old tyres. Alice had campaigned the same car half a dozen times or more and had done quite a lot of testing and hadn't got anywhere near a result like this.

All she ever seems to do on her Twitter feed etc is blame the equipment. If I were running her I'd find this insulting!

But as Sky Sports F1 will have you believe she is of course one of Britain's next F1 stars......... LOL

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Not sure I understand this comment.She is still leading the championship? Was best of 3 females in 2012 GP3 series.
BTW does anyone know what happened to Kate Impey who was doing this series two years ago-her website has not been updates since then?

I don't think she is leading any more, no.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Deemun

Alice will grab headlines because she is female. That is not a sexist remark; just reality. There are so few female drivers that they will naturally attract attention. There is no reason why a female shouldn't be successful in motor racing and I genuinely believe there must be a super talented female racer out there somewhere that can go all the way but we are yet to see it.

She is currently being talked about as a candidate for this years McLaren Autosport Young Driver Award. Quite frankly that is a joke. To illustrate a point she has also been campaigning in FF1600 in Souley Motorsport Ray GR07 without any success what so ever. Scott Malvern recently turned up and jumped in the same car at a Champion of Brands event & went straight out in qualifying and put it third on the grid and damn nearly won the race (photo finish into 2nd place) and was within a smidgen of the lap record on very old tyres. Alice had campaigned the same car half a dozen times or more and had done quite a lot of testing and hadn't got anywhere near a result like this.

All she ever seems to do on her Twitter feed etc is blame the equipment. If I were running her I'd find this insulting!

But as Sky Sports F1 will have you believe she is of course one of Britain's next F1 stars......... LOL

I am amazed that she could be considered for the AYDA. That would indeed be laughable and seriously devalue the award for me.

BTW I hear her team have been less than impressed, especially when she told MSVR media that the car was the worst she had ever driven. That must have been motivating. Her unsporting antics at Snetterton last month didn't endear her to anyone either.

Best will in the world, the only way she'll get to F1 is if grandad buys a team.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by REALIST

So was it interesting? After a reasonable start she has looked very ordinary over the last few rounds and occasionally not very good at all.

I think it has been interesting in that it demonstrates the strength of the F3 Cup field (although it could probably do with a few more cars...), in that a driver with a reasonable CV (i.e. a couple of years in Formula Renault, GP3) hasn't been able to dominate proceedings.

Originally Posted by Deemun

To illustrate a point she has also been campaigning in FF1600 in Souley Motorsport Ray GR07 without any success what so ever. Scott Malvern recently turned up and jumped in the same car at a Champion of Brands event & went straight out in qualifying and put it third on the grid and damn nearly won the race

From memory Alice Powell raced in the FF1600 races at Donington and Silverstone and took a second, fourth and two retirements, which are quite reasonable in my view. Probably not indicative of future F1 stardom, though.

Originally Posted by REALIST

I am amazed that she could be considered for the AYDA. That would indeed be laughable and seriously devalue the award for me.

The nominations have yet to be announced, although she is eligible. I do think that the nominations this year will be quite weak compared to previous seasons, which I suspect will be is due to the fragmentation of single seater racing and the current economy.

Originally Posted by Rob29

Was best of 3 females in 2012 GP3 series.

Given the calibre of the other two female drivers, I'm not sure how much of an accolade this is.

[EastonNeston]

If a driver had done 3 years in Formula Renault ( 2 FRUK & 1 barc Fr) together with a year of GP3, it is not unreasonable to expect that that driver would be very competitive in what is a club level series for amateur drivers, most of whom have no ambition to proceed any higher in single seaters.

For comparison last season, both Sean Walkinshaw & Felix Da Costa totally dominated the F3 cup events they entered, something Alice has definately failed to do.
For a driver with her level of experience, this is her 5th year in single seaters,the results so far do not suggest that she has the ability to get to F1 on ability.

[andrewc]

Yes, we were all humbled by Antonio Felix da Costa's performance in the newer chassis (invitational class). Nine seconds clear in wet qualifying, and 5s to 7s clear in damp conditions. He joined in the banter between the teams and drivers and all of F3 Cup hopes he gets the Toro Rosso seat.

Alex Lynn joined the grid for Spa, to get some track-time for his F3 campaign, was almost 8.5s faster than 2nd in 1st quali (wet), but was generally 3 to 4 seconds a lap quicker than Aaron Steele in 2nd place.

Sean Walkinshaw generally had a second on the field at Anglesey, so somewhat closer to the field than ADdC and Lynn.

Some of the times that were set by the professional guest drivers have been matched or beaten this year by the regular club drivers.

Yes, the majority of the grid is made up of club racers, often running themselves, knowing that to drive anything much faster requires a huge amount of extra money and time for not a big reduction in lap time.

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by andrewc

Yes, we were all humbled by Antonio Felix da Costa's performance in the newer chassis (invitational class). Nine seconds clear in wet qualifying, and 5s to 7s clear in damp conditions. He joined in the banter between the teams and drivers and all of F3 Cup hopes he gets the Toro Rosso seat.

Alex Lynn joined the grid for Spa, to get some track-time for his F3 campaign, was almost 8.5s faster than 2nd in 1st quali (wet), but was generally 3 to 4 seconds a lap quicker than Aaron Steele in 2nd place.

Sean Walkinshaw generally had a second on the field at Anglesey, so somewhat closer to the field than ADdC and Lynn.

Some of the times that were set by the professional guest drivers have been matched or beaten this year by the regular club drivers.

Yes, the majority of the grid is made up of club racers, often running themselves, knowing that to drive anything much faster requires a huge amount of extra money and time for not a big reduction in lap time.

I totally agree Andrew. I also think Alice was rather fortunate to win the Formula Renault BARC Championship. She already had gained a years experience in the higher UK series before stepping back down to the 2nd tier club series and she had a very good car and engineer (Sarah Shaw) & was up against some very inexperienced opposition who mainly fell over each other. Despite this she hardly dominated.

I think if she had entered in 2012 when FR BARC was pretty much the only show in town (hence 30 car plus grids)and had some very experienced and capable drivers to compete against (largly due to the cancellation of the UK series) we would have seen a far different story.

Don't get me wrong; there are far worse drivers around and she has put in some credible performances but she is hardly the F1 material that some people seem to think she is! In retrospect I think she will see that stepping up to GP3 when she did last year (2012) was a step too far and she'd have been far better off learning her trade and spending far less money competing in something like Formula Renault NEC.

No disrespect at all to F3 Cup. It's a great way to race an F3 on a clubmans budget but it is made up of some very good hard working enthusiasts who go out to enjoy themselves which is wonderful. But by their own admission they are not pro or career drivers. With her reputation Alice should have dominated and she hasn't which means she is a very capable driver as are the majority of her F3 cup peers but she isn't an oustanding one!

Of course wether or not she goes onto have a profressional career or not depends rather more on how much financial support she has behind her.

[andrewc]

Alice has had 5 tests this summer with Carlin in a Formula Renault 3.5 WSR car, so that is where I would expect to see her next year.

Paddock gossip suggests that costs about £ 8000 - £ 10000 per day. The cost of that alone would probably pay for a seasons racing for five or six F3 Cup drivers who run themselves!

I believe the majority of her funding comes via her Grandfathers Silverstone Hotels, and everyone knows the tale of how to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large one.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Deemun

I totally agree Andrew. I also think Alice was rather fortunate to win the Formula Renault BARC Championship. She already had gained a years experience in the higher UK series before stepping back down to the 2nd tier club series and she had a very good car and engineer (Sarah Shaw) & was up against some very inexperienced opposition who mainly fell over each other. Despite this she hardly dominated.

I think if she had entered in 2012 when FR BARC was pretty much the only show in town (hence 30 car plus grids)and had some very experienced and capable drivers to compete against (largly due to the cancellation of the UK series) we would have seen a far different story.

Don't get me wrong; there are far worse drivers around and she has put in some credible performances but she is hardly the F1 material that some people seem to think she is! In retrospect I think she will see that stepping up to GP3 when she did last year (2012) was a step too far and she'd have been far better off learning her trade and spending far less money competing in something like Formula Renault NEC.

No disrespect at all to F3 Cup. It's a great way to race an F3 on a clubmans budget but it is made up of some very good hard working enthusiasts who go out to enjoy themselves which is wonderful. But by their own admission they are not pro or career drivers. With her reputation Alice should have dominated and she hasn't which means she is a very capable driver as are the majority of her F3 cup peers but she isn't an oustanding one!

Of course wether or not she goes onto have a profressional career or not depends rather more on how much financial support she has behind her.

This about sums up the situation.

The fact is that, certainly in the latter half of the season, 3 or 4 of the regular clubbies have looked better than her despite running on a much lower budget.

Tristan Cliffe, for one, has made her look very ordinary on several occasions, despite him not being able to afford to test or use new tyres as she does. Alex Craven generally seems quicker too.

[andrewc]

Originally Posted by REALIST

Tristan Cliffe, for one, has made her look very ordinary on several occasions, despite him not being able to afford to test or use new tyres as she does. Alex Craven generally seems quicker too.

Tristan has taken 10 consecutive pole positions and taken the fastest lap of the weekend for the last 6 events.

He has done precisely *zero* testing this season, and last went in a gym about 7 years ago. He smokes, enjoys chocolate and pizza and we feed him a bacon sandwich for breakfast.

The first time he drove his silver Mugen Honda car was on the way to the assembly area for qualifying, and there wasn't time to shakedown the test following the Snetterton accident before heading out into qualifying.

As he cannot afford to test, he approaches how to go fast by using his brain and has developed his own setup strategies which appear to be working.

Alex has been testing and has access to Alex Lynn and Robbie Kerr who act as driver coaches for Lanan. He's very, very quick though.

----

Alice is using the Spanish / European F3 Open Toyota long life engine. These are about 20kgs heavier than a full F3 spec engine (but I suspect she is at least 20kgs lighter than most of the grid) and there is a minimum weight limit anyway.

The engines develop their power in slightly different ways, and they have to be geared slightly differently, the Toyota is often fastest at the end of the straight, but might be very slightly lacking in torque - but Tristan says that after comparing his Brands GP data from 2012 (Toyota) to 2013 (Mugen) suggests the rate of acceleration is actually very similar and he was going down a bit of a blind alley regarding his setup last year which he know understands much better.

[Deemun]

"He has done precisely *zero* testing this season, and last went in a gym about 7 years ago. He smokes, enjoys chocolate and pizza and we feed him a bacon sandwich for breakfast."

Ha ha good for him! My hero! Is he a big fan of James Hunt as well? I won't ask about any of his other hobbies and interests ;-)

[andrewc]

He did have two budgies when he was younger...

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by andrewc

He did have two budgies when he was younger...

Superb! Fond of birds then ;-)

[Flavio Galtieri]

I think you lot are being quite rotten to Alice.

The fact is we need a female F1 driver, we need more female racing drivers in general just as we need more females as role models in other top jobs in our society. And yes, a lot of performance at at this and higher levels IS down to the car. Alice was usually just outside the top ten during her one year in GP3.

I've seen male drivers in GP3 and Euro F3 who I seriously doubt could put a car on the front row of a Formula Vee club race let alone FF1600.

I don't see any threads criticising them!

[andrewc]

Another F1 hopeful, Carlos Sainz Jnr, will be joining F3 Cup at Snetterton. He has to do a qualifying F3 meeting in order to meet the Macau GP entry requirements.

Sainz did a pretty good job at the F1 Young Driver Test this summer.

[Stephen Green]

I shall look forward to seeing him, Tristan and the others in a few weeks time then

[EastonNeston]

I'd expect Carlos to show a similar level of performance to that shown by Alex Lynn & Felix Da Costa last season.

It would be fair to say that a competent professional driver, with serious intentions of reaching the higher levels of the sport, would be significantly faster than the amateurs who comprise most of the grid.