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Old 6 Nov 2018, 23:07 (Ref:3861489)   #136
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
True, but there is simply nothing in GT4 for a Volkswagen, Peugeot or Honda enthusiast to cheer for. That's the beauty of TCR; you can cheer on a souped up version of the car you actually drive... without the peer pressure to get more expensive RWD performance car (most of which don't even have manual transmission option and are trying too hard to be luxury cars!).
I drive a Golf, but TCR is boring as batshit, and that is with multiple world touring car champions driving.

Not sure that some second-rate club racers running around with Shannons Nationals is going to provide much interest by comparison.

I wonder if most of the entertainment might come in the form of *****ing about BoP....
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Old 7 Nov 2018, 00:16 (Ref:3861500)   #137
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I drive a Golf, but TCR is boring as batshit, and that is with multiple world touring car champions driving.

Not sure that some second-rate club racers running around with Shannons Nationals is going to provide much interest by comparison.

I wonder if most of the entertainment might come in the form of *****ing about BoP....
Not sure about the quality of drivers that might appear but I believe that some current and former V8 Supercars drivers are interested. Lets see who turns up at the test and launch day.
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Old 7 Nov 2018, 14:23 (Ref:3861631)   #138
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FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!
Not much wrong with TCR. I have seen great races this season.
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Old 7 Nov 2018, 20:04 (Ref:3861694)   #139
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TCR is boring as batshit,
BTCC is far from boring, nearly every race creates incredible 4-wide action, so there is the potential to be exciting. TCR Germany also manages to create 4-abreast racing action.

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Not sure that some second-rate club racers
I'd like to see former international Formula 3000 driver and Mighty Mouse Honda time attacker Rob Nguyen in a Civic, as well as Improved Production Honda ace Jordan Cox.

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Not sure a ‘popular’ model argument is particularly valid here...
Manual-only hot hatches don't tend to sell well in Australia compared to their dual-clutch or automatic alternatives, as buyers seem averse to cars with clutch pedals -- go figure! You can't count on the buying public to have taste [try finding a BMW M140i hot hatchback with manual transmission, they are outnumbered 9:1 by automatic models]. Meanwhile, 80% of rental cars in Europe are manual, and over there it's just normal for cars to be manual.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 7 Nov 2018 at 20:13.
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 00:16 (Ref:3861732)   #140
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BTCC is far from boring, nearly every race creates incredible 4-wide action, so there is the potential to be exciting. TCR Germany also manages to create 4-abreast racing action.



I'd like to see former international Formula 3000 driver and Mighty Mouse Honda time attacker Rob Nguyen in a Civic, as well as Improved Production Honda ace Jordan Cox.



Manual-only hot hatches don't tend to sell well in Australia compared to their dual-clutch or automatic alternatives, as buyers seem averse to cars with clutch pedals -- go figure! You can't count on the buying public to have taste [try finding a BMW M140i hot hatchback with manual transmission, they are outnumbered 9:1 by automatic models]. Meanwhile, 80% of rental cars in Europe are manual, and over there it's just normal for cars to be manual.
How much is the European manual market driven by distributor offering? Manual seems to be vanishing in NZ altogether, even in commercial vehicles too. I know of a truck fleet of around 600 with less than 20 manuals because they struggle to find drivers that can drive them.
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 03:24 (Ref:3861741)   #141
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If 4 wide racing is your metric for entertaining racing we need go engineer the thinnest cars possible surely.

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Old 8 Nov 2018, 05:01 (Ref:3861744)   #142
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I'd like to see former international Formula 3000 driver and Mighty Mouse Honda time attacker Rob Nguyen in a Civic, as well as Improved Production Honda ace Jordan Cox.
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3861792)   #143
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If 4 wide racing is your metric for entertaining racing we need go engineer the thinnest cars possible surely.
Not necessary! TCR sure turn on a great show with 4-wide racing that is somehow all too-hard for line-astern Supercars...







BTCC manage it too! Hatchback racing sure is great, isn't it?



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Old 8 Nov 2018, 13:03 (Ref:3861799)   #144
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I drive a Golf, but TCR is boring as batshit,
Plenty of action, some of it 3-wide and 4-wide, in this TCR Europe race from he Hungaroring. https://youtu.be/MKRlG2O2Hgg?t=835 Quite entertaining!
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 22:35 (Ref:3861883)   #145
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I have watched that race and it's one of the ones I am not much of a fan of. The only interest is working out how hard someone has to biff to pass, and the suspense is whether the stewards do anything.

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Old 8 Nov 2018, 23:11 (Ref:3861887)   #146
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Plenty of action, some of it 3-wide and 4-wide, in this TCR Europe race from he Hungaroring. https://youtu.be/MKRlG2O2Hgg?t=835 Quite entertaining!
I hope the commentary is better here...
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 23:31 (Ref:3861890)   #147
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Not necessary! TCR sure turn on a great show with 4-wide racing that is somehow all too-hard for line-astern Supercars...
Mate seriously your dedication to this is comical.

You're talking to someone who sought out the racing and watched some of it, and I'll watch some more, but the pinnacle of motorsport it is not.

I like the look of the cars but they sound like ****.

They are too similar in specification and tyre wear doesn't seem to play into things, and FWD cars wearing their tyres leads to cars parking on the apex, which means the only way you can pass is outright smash and grab. Honestly people complaining about "bump and run" in Supercars... Get a load of what they let go here.

At least with V8s people can get loose or lose the rear end under braking and it does create some excitement when someone has pitted and has fresher tyres - an element which isn't in TCR racing.
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 06:14 (Ref:3861919)   #148
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Mate seriously your dedication to this is comical.
Without anyone entering a HR35TT (J35 V6, twin turbo) powered Accord in Supercars (which would be much like Realtime Racing's neat spaceframe Acura TLX GT), there is little for a Honda fan to cheer for in local touring car racing!

Honda and JAS Motorsport are obviously heavily associated with touring car racing, but with the local 5.0L rules they haven't been represented in Australian touring car racing previously (only by the JAS-built Civics and Jazzes that raced in the Australian Rally Championship; and the odd privateer Accord super tourer). The TCR class is a good chance for them to get involved.

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but the pinnacle of motorsport it is not. I like the look of the cars but they sound like ****.
I agree. They are low-revving turbocharged four-cylinders, that's just what they sound like -- not good! What can you do? That's just how hot hatches are these days.

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Old 9 Nov 2018, 09:59 (Ref:3861941)   #149
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How much is the European manual market driven by distributor offering? Manual seems to be vanishing in NZ altogether, even in commercial vehicles too. I know of a truck fleet of around 600 with less than 20 manuals because they struggle to find drivers that can drive them.
Ask the fleet manager and I bet that is not the reason at all, the real reason is that fleet repair costs fall with autos, it is way less stressful to drive an auto truck and in general they give better fuel economy. I have driven both for many years so yes my view comes from long experience. You could not quantify how much stress is removed when driving a heavily loaded vehicle in traffic with an auto box.
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 10:36 (Ref:3861945)   #150
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Ask the fleet manager and I bet that is not the reason at all, the real reason is that fleet repair costs fall with autos, it is way less stressful to drive an auto truck and in general they give better fuel economy. I have driven both for many years so yes my view comes from long experience. You could not quantify how much stress is removed when driving a heavily loaded vehicle in traffic with an auto box.
Sadly autos are actually cheaper to run long term as well because people can't break them like they can a stick...
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