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Old 15 Mar 2012, 06:31 (Ref:3041304)   #26
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Originally Posted by Silver 3 View Post
WP is a great little track-- and permanent. A few years back they had the opportunity to extend -- I am sure a fraction of Gov money to assist would have seen that happen and it is there PERMANENTLY for the benefit of ALL motorsport.
WP is a great little track and certainly has the potential to become a track suited to a regular V8 round albeit with plenty of $$$ thrown at it.
Didn't seem all that long ago that i enjoyed watching The Fujitsu Series and the Utes there amongst some pretty decent crowds.
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Old 15 Mar 2012, 15:49 (Ref:3041573)   #27
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Part of benefiting motor sport is giving it exposure to expand its reach. You guys talking about Wakefield reminds me of Buttonwillow and Willow Springs, which are both not that far away from L.A., but who's actually heard of them? Unless you're already into cars and racing, you haven't. I'll bet plenty of readers of Road & Track even, which uses those California tracks for testing, would draw a blank about those tracks if you asked them in passing. At least people know that Long Beach exists, even if they never go.

You also mentioned that you might as well head on to a track in the Sydney area if you're going far enough to get out to Wakefield. With those two tracks in California, they're far enough out that too many people would likely think it too much of a pain to go out there to watch a race for them to be viable for big events. Also, I just see ZERO chance at present for either Buttonwillow or Willow Springs to get the upgrades that would be desired for them to be considered for events in ALMS, Grand-Am, or IndyCar.

And a final note, which probably comes out of the American perspective. That is, a small part of me asks, if a permanent road course is truly viable, why should it need public funds for upgrades or an extension? If it matters enough to the track management and fans, why can't they just "make it happen" themselves? Road America and Lime Rock have both made major changes in recent years, and i'm not aware of public funding for those projects.
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Old 15 Mar 2012, 20:22 (Ref:3041788)   #28
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isnt wakefield park near canberra, coudn't the ACT government slip some cash there way to improve the track/facilities
ONLY Coch0 could put together a business case to support this idea peck .. ... how 'bout the Newcastle City Council tip in money to?
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Old 15 Mar 2012, 22:52 (Ref:3041865)   #29
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ONLY Coch0 could put together a business case to support this idea peck .. ... how 'bout the Newcastle City Council tip in money to?
nah they already have a motorsport facility, next to the footy stadium. they even have a DV8 squad based there...
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Old 15 Mar 2012, 23:30 (Ref:3041892)   #30
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From memory, the original canberra track was designed to achieve two things:
  • To showcase some of the famous landmarks to the country. Dont know why as barriers put up block most of them...
  • To enhance the coincidence that the track design matches the outline of a GMC power drill
Problem is (apart from being numbingly cold), it interrupted the poor public servants a wee bit too much.

Therefore, run an end of year event out at hume.
Tralee... Beee theerrreee!
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Old 15 Mar 2012, 23:41 (Ref:3041900)   #31
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Originally Posted by F J Nedos View Post
From memory, the original canberra track was designed to achieve two things:
  • To showcase some of the famous landmarks to the country. Dont know why as barriers put up block most of them...
  • To enhance the coincidence that the track design matches the outline of a GMC power drill
Problem is (apart from being numbingly cold), it interrupted the poor public servants a wee bit too much.

Therefore, run an end of year event out at hume.
Tralee... Beee theerrreee!
I'm not sure how it interupted the public servants, it was run on a long weekend
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 03:24 (Ref:3041984)   #32
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And a final note, which probably comes out of the American perspective. That is, a small part of me asks, if a permanent road course is truly viable, why should it need public funds for upgrades or an extension? If it matters enough to the track management and fans, why can't they just "make it happen" themselves? Road America and Lime Rock have both made major changes in recent years, and i'm not aware of public funding for those projects.
Because permanent road circuits (like our Mt Panorama circuit in Bathurst) are not owned by track management, fans or event promoters.

The condition of the roads is the responsibility of the local/state government because it services the general public.

The governments then hire out the track/facilities to event promoters and part of their responsibility is to ensure they're suitable for the purpose.

The local governments also get the economic benefit of having the events (particularly the larger ones, like the Bathurst 1000).
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 04:06 (Ref:3041992)   #33
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I'm aware of the nature of Bathurst as a road circuit dating back to the 1930s, but that does NOT provide an answer regarding the permanent tracks. That is, what about Barbagallo, Hidden Valley, Winton, Sandown, Queensland, Philip Island, Symmons Plains, and Eastern Creek? Are those not privately-held, permanent facilities?
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 04:27 (Ref:3041998)   #34
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I'm not sure how it interupted the public servants, it was run on a long weekend
I can't recall if the event (s) were held on a long weekend or not however the Public bludgers were not overly inconvenienced as there was plenty of warning about road closures where delays were minimal and it's not like they would have needed their arm twisted to take an extra day off anyway.
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 04:36 (Ref:3041999)   #35
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I can't recall if the event (s) were held on a long weekend or not however the Public bludgers were not overly inconvenienced as there was plenty of warning about road closures where delays were minimal and it's not like they would have needed their arm twisted to take an extra day off anyway.
it was on the June long weekend, Some would argue taht was part of the problem.

but i reckon you are right about the day off
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 04:47 (Ref:3042001)   #36
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If you close off one car park and restrict the roads (i.e. put in a closure) for even only 1 day... that is enough for the complaints.

I didn't complain. And my job back then was still in walking distance and my normal drive to work was interrupted. But there were options. You just had to use an ounce of common sense to see them. Apparantly that was lacking with the pubic serpents...
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 05:17 (Ref:3042011)   #37
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The problem with the old race was too narrow of a track and at the wrong time of year. .
don't forget those people had to change their route home. i mean it was one WHOLE weekend a year that a road is closed.
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 07:08 (Ref:3042026)   #38
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Rather than resurrect a failed event from a decade ago, why not put the money to better use like resurrect ing the idea that was proposed in the early 80s for a permanent circuit in Canberra (the original goal was the AGP)

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Originally Posted by Purist View Post
I'm aware of the nature of Bathurst as a road circuit dating back to the 1930s, but that does NOT provide an answer regarding the permanent tracks. That is, what about Barbagallo, Hidden Valley, Winton, Sandown, Queensland, Philip Island, Symmons Plains, and Eastern Creek? Are those not privately-held, permanent facilities?
Eastern Creek is owned by the NSW Government
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Old 16 Mar 2012, 08:22 (Ref:3042053)   #39
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I'm aware of the nature of Bathurst as a road circuit dating back to the 1930s, but that does NOT provide an answer regarding the permanent tracks. That is, what about Barbagallo, Hidden Valley, Winton, Sandown, Queensland, Philip Island, Symmons Plains, and Eastern Creek? Are those not privately-held, permanent facilities?
Barbagallo has had some govt funding and now has some serious upgrades happening funded largely (but not solely) by the WA govt; Hidden Valley is owned and funded by the NT govt; Winton is owned by the local car club but was pitching for some govt assistance a few years ago - not sure if it got that assistance or not; Sandown owned by Melbourne Racing Club but from memory in the past (when it had big building project in 80s) there was some govt assistance; Queensland Raceway was bailed out by the Qld govt after original ownership group went belly up, has local govt and state govt assistance; Philip Island is privately owned but has had state govt assistance due to the MotoGP and world super bikes; Symmons Plains is privately owned but has had large injections of govt money into upgrades and event costs; Eastern Creek is owned by the NSW govt and leased by the ARDC.

The thing is Purist, that in a country such as Australia with a population of only 21 million, pretty much all serious sports facilities rely on and have received substantial govt funding.
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Old 17 Mar 2012, 21:52 (Ref:3043233)   #40
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Put a carbon levy on it

It'lll never happen
Bob Brown will insist on solar powered cars
And Julia will deny there was ever a race there
and if there was a race, she was never made aware of it.
So i suggest we send it to China
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Old 17 Mar 2012, 23:27 (Ref:3043311)   #41
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Rather than resurrect a failed event from a decade ago, why not put the money to better use like resurrect ing the idea that was proposed in the early 80s for a permanent circuit in Canberra (the original goal was the AGP)



Eastern Creek is owned by the NSW Government
Wakefield Park is a perfectly serviceable race track just on an hour out of Canberra. Somehow it would be hard to imagine 2 of these facilities in that time range getting up.

Having said that, is there a horse racing track that could be converted/modernised ala Sandown to create a combined sporting precinct?
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Old 18 Mar 2012, 00:26 (Ref:3043391)   #42
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Something like Warwick Farm in your thinking GTR. The outline of some of the track is still there.
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Old 18 Mar 2012, 01:07 (Ref:3043424)   #43
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Something like Warwick Farm in your thinking GTR. The outline of some of the track is still there.
Something like that.. makes sense to enable a sporting venue for multiple types of entertainment.

Horse racing dont use their tracks every single week for racing, morning trackwork not withstanding, while motor racing dont use them that regularly either...

You could use common grandstands, hospitality areas, carparks, comfort stop amenities and the like...

So.. who has the vision.. ?
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Old 19 Mar 2012, 00:24 (Ref:3044308)   #44
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Because permanent road circuits (like our Mt Panorama circuit in Bathurst) are not owned by track management, fans or event promoters.

The condition of the roads is the responsibility of the local/state government because it services the general public.

The governments then hire out the track/facilities to event promoters and part of their responsibility is to ensure they're suitable for the purpose.

The local governments also get the economic benefit of having the events (particularly the larger ones, like the Bathurst 1000).
don't get confused with the vernacular Eduardo, a road course in the US is where they turn right as well as left. This is not the same as what we call a street circuit over here. EC, PI etc etc are what the Americans call Road Courses
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Old 25 Apr 2012, 10:57 (Ref:3065307)   #45
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Something like that.. makes sense to enable a sporting venue for multiple types of entertainment.

Horse racing dont use their tracks every single week for racing, morning trackwork not withstanding, while motor racing dont use them that regularly either...

You could use common grandstands, hospitality areas, carparks, comfort stop amenities and the like...

So.. who has the vision.. ?
Interesting, the ACT Council of Motor Clubs usually holds their big multi club car show 'WHEELS' on the lawns of Old Parliament House, right next to where the old GMC race track went - but this year due to the lawns being innundated with water from storms, the event was held at Equestrian Park, the horse racing track. While only a static event the event was very well received, had good parking for visitors lots of shade and covered areas plus great coffee, food and drink concessions and looks like being used again in the future. Now to get the cars moving....

(sorry for the late reply!)
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Old 25 Apr 2012, 21:03 (Ref:3065574)   #46
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A member since 2008 and 1 post - hmmmmmmm
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Old 26 Apr 2012, 00:11 (Ref:3065638)   #47
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I don't visit often...
I think I originally joined to be able to access the search function... and was back looking recently looking for Group C and E RX7 info.

Back on topic, if I recall correctly back in the Fraser era there was talk of a dedicated track a bit north of Canberra but that kind of thing couldn't get any traction now due to the NIMBY's noise complaints and the Govt who during the GMC event insisted on large tourist revenue return for their contribution - apparently putting something for the locals isn't good enough, you have to fill premium hotel beds. The inability to relocate the dragstrip due to noise concerns by a vocal minority in the next valley, and ongoing noise problems with the existing motorsport precinct and its over the border neighbours pretty much prevent anything substantial happening again.

Pity they will not build the roads for the new suburbs then run circuit racing on them before the houses go up like they did at Macarthur back in the late seventies and early eighties

woohoo! doubled my post count!
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 23:37 (Ref:4072218)   #48
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Summernats has been cancelled to 2022 and is held in the same general area...the new track could work if the cars can make it through all the South Sydney tape! (Red and Green!)...
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 00:06 (Ref:4072222)   #49
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Actually, I've watched the 2002 Canberra event (qualifying and all three races from beginning to end). There were a number of wild exchanges, with several back-and-forths as the guys trying to pass overcooked it and got re-passed themselves. And it's nice having a track that actually punishes mistakes with meaningful consequences that don't have to be doled out by the Chief Steward.
Hey Purist, the proposed 3.2Km track will be flat (very slight elevation change), tight around the back and with a couple of straights to stretch their legs...see my map...
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 00:09 (Ref:4072224)   #50
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Those "dips" have no place on a normal road--let alone on a race track--they are just plain dangerous.
Given you are from"out of town" you are excused from my full invective-- but honestly-- Canberra circuit was the most ill conceived imaginable-- both the track and event itself.
To make a point about circuits-- Calder is mostly flat-- not very complicated track( hardly used these days for political reasons) but I have seen some great racing there in many different categories including V8's.From a driving perspective I have always enjoyed this track.
For spectators--it is great as they can see most of the track-- as per Winton & QR.
I tend to think that tracks where people can actually see the action are preferable eg Nascar where there are real live spectators.
Hey Silver, I marshalled at all the Canberra 400 races...it was reasonably successful to enthusiasts, despite operating under a concerted, tirade of NIMBY and squeaky wheel media abuse...
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