CSCC Knockhill 3rd & 4th July 2021

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by andy97

I had to withdraw as I am working on a project in Devon that is proving very demanding of time and energy, and has been extended to August ( have also had to cancel at rally entry at Anglesey). I, too, hope that CSCC will,return to Knockhill some time soon.
People happily travel to Spa but find jaunts in the U.K. to Cadwell, Anglesey, Croft or Knockhill to be a pain.

I guess that, for some in the south, the actual road mileage to Spa is actually less than it may be for Croft, Anglesey or Knockhill. But by the time you factor in ferry crossings and all the other 'extras' required to compete at Spa, I can't imagine that it's anything but more hassle to go to Spa compared to anywhere in mainland Britain.

But, I guess Spa has a draw that some find irresistible, whereas the northern UK circuits apparently don't. People possibly see Spa as more of an 'adventure', and I'm sure it is as fantastic as many claim - I've never been, so can't say - but when you consider that you could probably do three or four UK meetings for the cost of doing Spa, it makes it hard to justify if you're on a budget.

I suspect, for many of us, it's a bucket list item. I'd love to do it one day but, short of a lottery win, if I ever did push the boat out, it would probably be a one-time deal.

[andy97]

Exactly,Paul.

[coppice]

There has been a tendency for young Autosport journalists to sneer at the more provincial UK circuits . 'This (random European circuit) certainly beats Mallory Park on a soggy Saturday ' or 'this circuit isn't up to British GT standards' .

Having seen Senna , F2 and F5000 at Mallory, Hunt , Raikkonen and Hamilton at Croft and Denny Hulme in a T70 and Jackie Stewart in a a Tyrrrell at Oulton maybe they need to remind themselves what a rich racing heritage we have ..?

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Paul D

I guess that, for some in the south, the actual road mileage to Spa is actually less than it may be for Croft, Anglesey or Knockhill. But by the time you factor in ferry crossings and all the other 'extras' required to compete at Spa, I can't imagine that it's anything but more hassle to go to Spa compared to anywhere in mainland Britain.

But, I guess Spa has a draw that some find irresistible, whereas the northern UK circuits apparently don't. People possibly see Spa as more of an 'adventure', and I'm sure it is as fantastic as many claim - I've never been, so can't say - but when you consider that you could probably do three or four UK meetings for the cost of doing Spa, it makes it hard to justify if you're on a budget.

I suspect, for many of us, it's a bucket list item. I'd love to do it one day but, short of a lottery win, if I ever did push the boat out, it would probably be a one-time deal.

It really isn't Paul; the hassle stops the minute you drive off the ferry or shuttle in Calais - we literally breath a deep sigh of relief every time. The roads are emptier, the weather usually is warmer and drier, the service stations are a joy to stop at, they are never crowded and have decent coffee and food. When you get to Spa you are welcomed by the same paddock marshals who've done it for years, they always recognise us and give a warm & friendly greeting. Even the furthest-flung part of the overflow paddock has smooth tarmac and power and water laid on.
Then there's the terrace next to the Brasserie on the top of the F1 race control & admin building, with its stunning view over much of the circuit and the valley right up to the top hairpin, its near the top of my favourite eating places in the whole of Europe. All this and I've not turned a wheel on the track yet!
I too thought it was a bucket list trip when I first visited around 15 years ago but I've been drawn back to it most years since, even reducing UK racing when a choice had to be made. As a friend once said, quality wins over quantity every time...

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by coppice

There has been a tendency for young Autosport journalists to sneer at the more provincial UK circuits . 'This (random European circuit) certainly beats Mallory Park on a soggy Saturday ' or 'this circuit isn't up to British GT standards' .

Having seen Senna , F2 and F5000 at Mallory, Hunt , Raikkonen and Hamilton at Croft and Denny Hulme in a T70 and Jackie Stewart in a a Tyrrrell at Oulton maybe they need to remind themselves what a rich racing heritage we have ..?

Whoa! isn't that the short-sighted management view that killed most of our industry at the end of the last century? Not investing for the future, relying on past achievements ('heritage') and hoping that customers don't ever look elsewhere and realise how it could be done so much better?

[coppice]

Not at all- of course circuits need to be maintained and updated but 'abroad' seems to add to the veneer of appeal . Heritage is important - where would Le Mans, Spa and Monza be without it ?- and ignore it your peril but that doesn't mean we should only look back of course.

I just don't care for the lazy sneering at our own circuits which some seem so to enjoy .

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

It really isn't Paul; the hassle stops the minute you drive off the ferry or shuttle in Calais - we literally breath a deep sigh of relief every time. The roads are emptier, the weather usually is warmer and drier, the service stations are a joy to stop at, they are never crowded and have decent coffee and food. When you get to Spa you are welcomed by the same paddock marshals who've done it for years, they always recognise us and give a warm & friendly greeting. Even the furthest-flung part of the overflow paddock has smooth tarmac and power and water laid on.
Then there's the terrace next to the Brasserie on the top of the F1 race control & admin building, with its stunning view over much of the circuit and the valley right up to the top hairpin, its near the top of my favourite eating places in the whole of Europe. All this and I've not turned a wheel on the track yet!
I too thought it was a bucket list trip when I first visited around 15 years ago but I've been drawn back to it most years since, even reducing UK racing when a choice had to be made. As a friend once said, quality wins over quantity every time...

David - I don't doubt any of what you say, and having driven in north-western Europe on several occasions, I agree that their roads are generally more enjoyable to drive on than their overcrowded British counterparts.

But your post kind of highlights my point: from your location, it's probably easier to access Spa than it is many of the northern UK circuits. For us in the north, we've got basically two choices: either a 300 mile drive on some of the worst of those very overcrowded British roads that you breathe a sigh of relief to be away from (plus, of course, another 300 on the way home), then we still have the remaining distance to cover on the other side, or, we drive 150 miles to Hull for the privilege of paying an absolute fortune for an overnight ferry to either Rotterdam or Zeebruge. Of course, this adds two extra nights minimum to your time away, meaning that you're likely to need best part of a week to take part in a weekend meeting at Spa.

That's all fine for some, but for those on a budget who are also still working, it can be difficult to justify the time and expense for one race, as fabulous as the experience undoubtedly is.

One day, maybe...

[zefarelly]

From the Sussex coast It takes as long to get to Oulton as it does Spa. . OP is a great circuit, but Spa wins hands down in every respect. Dijon isn't much longer.

[E.B]

Hehehe you are all just round the corner from everything over there! Spare a thought for those many Aussies that live in Perth and come over to race in the Eastern States a few times a year.
Over 7500 klms return from Perth to Phillip Island or 8000 k's for Bathurst! A quick trip to Bathurst is local for me.... only 1800 klms return.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

From the Sussex coast It takes as long to get to Oulton as it does Spa. . OP is a great circuit, but Spa wins hands down in every respect. Dijon isn't much longer.

No carnets and border checks to get to OP, no currency to change, no waiting for a ferry/ Chunnel etc.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

From the Sussex coast It takes as long to get to Oulton as it does Spa. . OP is a great circuit, but Spa wins hands down in every respect. Dijon isn't much longer.

Joe - I can't disagree with you... but, as with MGDavid, you're kind of making my point for me.

It is easier for you guys down there to get to Spa than some northern UK circuits - but that certainly isn't the case for those up north!

And as Andy has correctly pointed out - will it be so easy now after Brexit? How many have raced at Spa this year and I wonder how much extra hassle & cost is involved now?

[zefarelly]

The last 18 months has been a total washout, hopefully by next year things will start sorting themselves out. Euro jaunts were so simple. best not go there, still seething.

[The Fat Clerk]

I would have thought the Italians would be happy to see us after last nights fiasco

[Derwent]

The problem is that the majority of racers live in the south or midlands and further north we were rally folk, or so it was assumed.
Some folk have no idea of geography. When I was doin Equipe GTS races I tried hard to get them to come north. We did get races at Knockhill and Croft but they were never repeated. Anything north of Donington was seen as too far. I did point out how far from the Lake District I had to travel to the races. One guy told me Anglesey was not far for me but I had to point out it was actually slightly further for me than Donington!
Most of the efforts to run big "historic" type events/festivals etc in the north have failed usually due to a poor attendance. A huge effort was put into the Yorkshire Classic event at Wolfstone a few weeks back but the attendance was poor. Similarly the Gold Cup at OP never gets the quality entry it should and the same applies to the Croft Nostalgia Weekend from the HSCC.