Too many events and series in 2011

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by chunder

Why I respect guys like Stretton, Hadfield et al as they are able financially and talent wise to really give their machines the head.

Talent? Certainly.

But in fairness, they are not paying the bills. The owners are. And they have them in the cars to help them go faster.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

BTW did you read how much Clarkson earnt last year from his extra exploits outside of Top Gear? It was something like 8 million and all we got was a bit of poxy fuel money and some free grub from the burger stand!!!

I read it as a tenth of that Al, presumably before tax.

Not a bad income though. Wonder how much the Beeb made and whether the profit will be re-invested in programs about Polar Bears?

[grantp]

Historic racing can be a little confusing compared to, say, modern one make events where you know that all the competitors are in broadly similar cars that should have broadly equal performance.

It may not be at all obvious to a fairly casual observer that an Historic Race grid can be based on very different specifications for cars that look broadly similar and in part that can induce the wrong perception for watchers. Likewise any technical gremlins the driver is coping with may not be obvious either but can seriously affect lap times of course.

That said I can recall a few times when I thought at least one tailender really would be better off elsewhere, especially if there were more competitive cars left as reserves. Most could name one, maybe two, regulars in that respect (though perhaps not in races attracting a lot of reserves.)

In extreme cases you have to wonder why they bother to go out. I recall a saloon race at the Silverstone Classic a few years ago where the backmarker was so far off any pace that the car looked like it was being taken for a slow run down a county B-road expecting to find a tractor in its way at any moment. I seem to remember that I was watching from about half way around the circuit and half the field had lapped it by the time it came around for the second time. Compared with the rest of the race (and races) it just seemed to be so pointless to be out there.

As for pits and paddock access - I can't recall having to cough up extra to get into all parts of the circuit (except for stands maybe) for many years. Not since the GPs back in the 60s and 70s. Maybe I just don't go to the most 'prestigious' events. However I was browsing the Donington Site today looking to see if there was a club rac meeting calendar available (there doesn't seem to be) and noticed that the WSB meeting that kicks off the year does have pits and paddock access tickets.

Now that's interesting because if the entire paddock area is included it implies that there may have been some considerable work carried out by then to make more of the circuit spectator accessible than was the case at the end of last year.

On the other hand if it only applies to the fenced inner garage/paddock area it might mean nothing at all.

[simon drabble]

Dont forget a slow car might be a class winner.... I believe I am right in saying Lanfranchi achieved great saloon car success in period in a Wartburg going for class wins.

The point about fast preppers is well made which is why the quick owner/drivers such as Roger should get extra commendation. They know that their achievements come at great cost to themselves rather than their client!!

[Peter Mallett]

I think it was a Moskovitch and in the BSCC which ran to showroom price classes. Interestingly it had a BMW1500 engine.

[zefarelly]

Fair point Grant, but stick a 2 stroke DKW or Saab in with a load of hot rod V8's and steroid injected Cortinas and minis and thats what happens.

THeres probably just as much talent in the DKW or Saab, and they're homologated period correct cars which is what you want to see.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think it was a Moskovitch

Moskvitch - no second o!

[Peter Mallett]

Fair enough o!

[Al Weyman]

O or not still a load of crud.

[simon drabble]

you are right - in my flu haze I could not be bothered to google how to spell Moskovitch!

[johngee]

My knowledge of Russian is based on 'Compare the Meerkats.com' ...... and talking to Roger Wills

[chunder]

Well I shall leave you lot to your motorised museum racing.

Was fun, but as you say I was only having a go. No real need for the personal attacks, but you always get that when you throw people a few strong opinions.

In all seriousness I am a half fan of historic racing. I dont go to many metings but those I have been have produced the comments I have made. They were big meets like the Cllassic, Masters events and Goodwood.

If I went to more I would no doubt either change my opinion or keep it. But the fact I didn't really enjoy the racing (did enjoy the access and the paddock) is a sign for me.

I will admit that most car racing leaves me cold these days, being a convert to bikes helps this as the racing is usually much better for many reasons, grids, comparable equipment, comparable talent.

I still maintain that historics are strong and will thrive as unlike most racing it is not about the racing. You get the same in 750MC, club but the racing is often uch beter.

As a fan that is what I dont like. And why I have been so vociferous. THe usual suspects will pick bones and throw stones, and you are not going to lose any sleep over one guy who has a moan, but I do maintain I know a lot of people who feel the same, whether they are long term fas as I am or newcomers.

But you are alwasy going to maintain an interest coz of the historic element. It's why Pre1970 bangers are hugely popular with crowds for instance! Now I know that will make your bood boil!!

[Al Weyman]

Pre 70 bangers are probably popular because they are rear wheel drive and can take a bit of flack and are easier to prepare, more or less the same reason Historic Saloons are popular I guess. If you take just one meeting in Chunder in 2011 please come to Mallory 18th/19th June to our Historic Festival where we are also putting on Historic Motorbike races and those guys are mental and will really go for it and Alfa Romeo racing as well so you should enjoy yourself.

[automac24]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

With more events, both in the UK and in Europe, plus several new series, are there enough cars and drivers to fill the grids? It looks as though times will be harder for all of us and fuel seems to be steadily rising in price etc. Many folk are thinking of doing fewer events and a few are stopping.
As in 2010 there were some thin grids are we spreading competitors too thinly and will all the series and new meetings survive given they are chasing the same competitors?

Originally Posted by zefarelly

2010's not finished yet, Al will pass the violin over tomorrow

You are probably righ

[simon drabble]

Chunder I largely agree with your last post - the only time I go to Thruxton (my local circuit) is to watch bikes and truck racing.
What grated were the pointless comments on the negative correlation between wealth and talent. Not only was it puerile but also incorrect.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

the only time I go to Thruxton (my local circuit) is to watch truck racing..

I knew it, a closet truckie!

[Mike Bell]

Simon has got HGV1 licence, didn't you know?

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Simon has got HGV1 licence, didn't you know?

How did he reach the pedals?

[Nick JM]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Any driver, no matter how fast or slow, has put a lot of time & effort into getting out on the track - yes, even the rich man in his Winnebago has put in a lot of effort to arrive at the point where he can afford to race the way he wants to. An important aspect of historic racing is that some of those slow drivers you slag off are giving us the opportunity to see rare, priceless or just simply interesting cars in their natural habitat rather than just sitting gathering dust in a museum.

How eloquent...why didn't I think of something to osay tlike that!

[Nick JM]

[QUOTE=chunder;2811849]Well I shall leave you lot to your motorised museum racing.


Oh please don't go on our count

[Al Weyman]

People pay damned good money to go to museums (been to Beauliegh lately?) and you never get to hear and see the cars running so even if that is what its about its still good and watchable and worth seeing.

[john ruston]

Whats wrong with Histeric racing being a working museum.

Where it all goes wrong is when these preparation merchants introduce that development stuff and it becomes look alike racing.

It effects most classes including U2TC and similar things.

Its nonsense.

Go and do moderns if you want that stuff.

Think we have been here before.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Whats wrong with Histeric racing being a working museum.


Think we have been here before.

Nothing, and many many times...

[chunder]

I wil admit that even in stock car racing that I watch you get guys turning out in "heritage" cars! They are new metal build and simply replica's! And then you get guys running original machines from the 60's and 70's, ahrdly fair! They run on new tyres and use new build engines that are far from stock block.

I have realised actually that I am preaching (stirring) to the converted here as most of you are either long term fans or are actively involved in series be it driving, working, spannering!

My comments are those of a hugely enthusiastic fan. Consider what it would be like if you went to watch something new then went again and again and though hugely tantalised felt a little let down. That's all. You can't win them all I guess.

And Al, I was very lucky a mate of mine worked on Beauliegh, I got in for free, was a bit disappointed, but the bike bit was superb! All I remember is the worlds tiniest caravan which was superb!

[Al Weyman]

I thought there was a new HotRod Historic Formula now being run, in the 70's I have Hotrod raced two Anglias, a Mk 1 Escort, 1430 Mini, 1340 Mini, 1760 Mini-Ford and a terrible Hillman Imp Mid engined with 1760 Ford on top of Mini gearbox and no it didnt work!