Brdc Bawls Up!!!!!

[ascarracinguk]

WHAT A MESS!!!!! i dont think ive seen a bigger bawls up than today in my life....we started 10 mins late and by the gt race we were already an hour late...even when the races were shortened we still didnt finish all of them. you know that its been a bad day when we only did one more lap than last years mess!!. Why werent the cars fore the next race out while the clear up was being done....i think the brdc should take lessons off the 750mc. the icing on the cake was the seats....2 very slow warmup laps for some unknown reason and then a third before the start....add to that a hot day and lack of booze at the end and you come up with the biggest bawls up ive ever seen...im gonna think twice about doing another brdc meeting again!...id rather go to the gp.....and thats sayin something!

[andrew_powell98]

Plus you missed we the marshals ( and the fire truck) were called AMATURES because Mr. N. Piquet could not get off the line by stalling TWICE and turn towards the pit wall in to the path of the fire truck.
In total the BRDC are great at organising things at tracks where they have snatch's so 10 minutes between the sessions is not good enough. I must point out that the BRSCC did supply water on Saturday! how many marshal short are we next year?????

[Asp]

I can accept that there were one or two, or three, big tire wall rebuilds etc. But, the age-old solution that bigger clubs (in general) never seem to take on board is to send the cars out the the grid and start the countdown when the track is clear instead of sending the cars out when track is clear. As we know, that saves about 5/10 minutes per session...
As regards the late start - it wasn't late on our programme, but why was that changed from the 12 start shown on the programme?
And, returning to the SEATs - why was one qualy yesterday 30 mins and the second 20 mins... :confused:

It was the most poorly organised meeting I've ever attended. Which is a shame, because the racing (when it happened) was great.

[KayBee]

I would like to thank BRSCCNW for the water which they provided yesterday to most of the marshals who were stuck out on post without any dinner
break - unfortunately there wasn't enopugh to go all the way round the circuit.

In answer to

posted by ascarracinguk lack of booze at the end

last year that was provided by BRSCCNW not BRDC and I have it on good authority that it wasn't on the agenda for this year.

[ascarracinguk]

yeh i wanna thank the brscc for the water too....at least someone cares

[ascarracinguk]

ps....asp i got home first!!

[woody148uk]

KAYBEE SHOULDNT THIS COMMENT READ ALL MARSHALS
I would like to thank BRSCCNW for the water which they provided yesterday to most of the marshals who were stuck out on post without any dinner

[S_Morrell]

Agreed - this was a mess. Not a happy weekend for any volunteer.
If you look at the program for Saturday, the organisers only allowed 40 minutes for lunch. The first session was 10 minutes late leaving only 30 minutes. After the inevitable tyre wall rebuilds etc, lunch was cancelled. I'm not an expert but I do know that employers must allow a minimum 30 minute lunch break for paid employees – I’m not sure about volunteers though.
The organisers may try to claim force majeure here and say that they did try to build in a lunch break and that things were out of their control. I would suggest that this is rubbish - they know how these things work. In fact, at Oulton last year we had a 1.5 hour delay after the monster GT incident. To only allow 40 minutes at the outset suggests to me a complete disregard of the marshal’s wellbeing.
I noted with interest the comments about the BRSCC NW officials doing their best to help out. I know that Alistair Garrett and David Williams were very visible at this meeting as clerks of the course. I don't know if they were there as BRSCC or BRDC officials but I will say that I know from personal experience that these gentlemen care very much about marshals welfare and will have done all they could to help out. I'm sure that they will get to read this forum at some point so I'm sure that they will be grateful for the comments from other marshals on this forum for their comments. I was sitting on the BRSCC NW rescue unit - we could offer little more to help the marshals than some shade from the sun and cold drinks from time to time.
I know that we are volunteers but I wonder if the BRDC (as the organisers) are bound by the same regulations as a regular employer. Can anyone on this forum comment as I plan to take this issue up with the BMMC committee. I have a lot of dealings with the legal profession so I will be careful about my comments here - but I will say that I feel that the organisers could have taken greater measures to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the marshals than they did.
On Sunday, there was indeed an incident between Mr Piquet in an F3 and the fire truck at the race start. I won't comment on that one as it was just out of my sight (the incident happened just behind our rescue unit as we left the grid at the start) but I would be very interested to hear where the comments of 'amateur' came from. Is this hearsay or did someone actually witness this?
The program itself on Sunday was a complete debacle too. After the inevitable tyre wall rebuilds etc, delays meant that many races were run over a reduced distance and the last race (BRDC single seaters) did not take place before the 18:30 curfew. When will they learn that cars have incidents at race meetings and delays WILL happen? Racing at Oulton cannot start before noon on Sunday. Given that the program was so tight, why o why did the first cars not appear on circuit until around 10 or 12 minutes past? Also, given that the Seats were going to be racing right up until the curfew, why were they then given 2 parade laps prior to the green flag lap and the race start? The cynic in me suggests that this may be due to the fact that Seat were a contributor to the event and wanted some 'camera time'. I'm sure the spectators would be as upset as the marshals if this were the case.
Anyway, back at the ranch - does anyone out there know what the situation is as far as a statutory break is concerned for voluntary officials? Whilst I know that most clubs do take great care to ensure marshals get a decent lunch (from experience I know that Alistair Garrett and David Williams are great fighters for marshals wellbeing), it seems that some clubs care little for this. Perhaps we need to 'help' them plan their program in future - which is why I plan to take this up with the BMMC committee.

Best regards
Simon Morrell
BRSCC NW rescue unit - and still a marshal )

[JimW]

Personally, had I been at Oulton last weekend in my normal observer role, I would have stood people on my post down for a break. By rotation if it could have been done, but as a group if that was the only option. We would of course have told Race Control that we would be back "real soon".

People keep telling observers that they are "man managers" and responsible for looking after their team.

But I must say in their defence that I always try to do BRDC meetings (away from Silverstone) because their senior officials and organisation have usually done the decent thing in the past.

Regards

Jim

[woody148uk]

good comment simon
also what was the point of the GT'S 10 min warm up at the start of the event on sunday when they wasnt racing for another 45 mins pointless exercise

[Snapper Baz]

In some respects I'm glad I wasn't there...the same meeting last year was just as badly run. Why can't organisors get cars round and formed up on a grid instead of waiting ages-perhaps even follow the course car on his/her inspection lap-if not before? There were times last year when it could have easily been done without having to pass incidents being cleared up but and still they didn't resulting in the Miglia's going home without a race having been there since the Friday!

[Mark Mitchell]

I told myself I wasn't going to get involved in this one....but I'm in enough bad books already so a few more won't make a difference!
I have it from a senior official that the Race Director thought it ludicrous (?) that we should require refreshments.....don't they come prepared?
The back pages of the Race Programme feature the Race Director spouting about what he does and goes onto say that Marshals are the real unsung heroes blah blah blah! What Bull****, this man so obviously (to us) didn't give a toss about us frying in the sun over the weekend and neither did the Clerk of the course by all accounts.
Why can't these events be run by the regular teams at circuits. I'm bloody sure that the BRSCC NW Centre could have managed that meeting on their own. They have enough people at senior level who are MORE than capable of staging a high profile meeting like this.
Unfortunately, the Chief Marshal(s) will get all the flack from this.....sorry but that goes with the territory.....but my/our critisisms are not aimed at you. We just hope that you are able to funnel our comments to the parties concerned.

Regarding the collision between Mr Piquet Jnr and a fire truck.....I didn't see it but understand that the crew were clearly upset by the incident and whilst they will be the butt of our jokes at Oulton, it must be realised that incidents do happen on the race track and that it why we are there.
The water delivered on to post was a nice gesture but four bottles between eleven marshals wasn't good enough really. And why didn't we get any on the second day?
I never thought I would be one of those marshals who threatened to not volunteer for meetings due to the feeling of no respect, but I think I'm now part of the fast-growing number of officals who will start voting with their feet.
I'm now planning a couple of weeks off and am looking forward to the two weekends at Anglesey where both the BARC and the BRSCC will ensure that we have a damn good time. If you fancy a bloody good couple of days by the seaside then come to Anglesey!!

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by S_Morrell
If you look at the program for Saturday, the organisers only allowed 40 minutes for lunch.

Only 30 minutes in the final instructions!

I'm not an expert but I do know that employers must allow a minimum 30 minute lunch break for paid employees – I’m not sure about volunteers though.

Like you, I'm no expert, but as far as I know employment legislation doesn't cover volunteers

I was sitting on the BRSCC NW rescue unit - we could offer little more to help the marshals than some shade from the sun and cold drinks from time to time.

You could have bought us ice creams!

The program itself on Sunday was a complete debacle too. After the inevitable tyre wall rebuilds etc, delays meant that many races were run over a reduced distance and the last race (BRDC single seaters) did not take place before the 18:30 curfew. When will they learn that cars have incidents at race meetings and delays WILL happen?

It did also seem to us out at Island/Foulstons that there was no sense of urgency in running the meeting. Of course, we couldn't see everything that was going on, but it did appear that there were long periods when nothing was happening anywhere.

Also, given that the Seats were going to be racing right up until the curfew, why were they then given 2 parade laps prior to the green flag lap and the race start?

I'd like to know why they staged a go-slow on their parade & green flag laps; maybe someone 'in the know' will read this & offer an explanation. To us, it looked as though they were trying to get the race cancelled; I hope they noticed how few marshals applauded them at the end of their race. If I were a BRDC single-seater driver I have been very annoyed at having lost my race & seeing the SEAT drivers apparently not wanting to race.

The cynic in me suggests that this may be due to the fact that Seat were a contributor to the event and wanted some 'camera time'. I'm sure the spectators would be as upset as the marshals if this were the case.

From the amount of space they took up in the paddock & in the programme you'd have though that they were the most important races of the weekend!

Perhaps we need to 'help' them plan their program in future - which is why I plan to take this up with the BMMC committee.

Good luck with that! This meeting was one of my favourites; I can't see me doing it next year unless I can be convinced that it will be much better run & that the needs of marshals will be recognised.

To quote from the programme:

"Out in the cold (sic) are the marshals, without whom no racing could take place. 'They are essential & real unsing heroes,' says (Race Director) Scott." Maybe lipservice is not enough?

[KayBee]

Originally posted by woody148uk
KAYBEE SHOULDNT THIS COMMENT READ ALL MARSHALS
I would like to thank BRSCCNW for the water which they provided yesterday to most of the marshals who were stuck out on post without any dinner

I spoke to someone after the meeting on Sunday afternoon about the Saturday water who said 'what water?' so I presume that they didn't get any.

[Mark Mitchell]

My guess is that someone popped over to the Chequers and grabbed what water they had left!

[garybirch]

Sounds like we had a better time at Brands with the BRSCCSE. Although there was no lunch break on Sunday we had enough water on both days. Shame about some of the small grids and the Zip driver who had his suspension go through his leg (Scrutineers say they'll be talking with the MSA about the way the car only has a frame and fibreglass tunnel).

[S_Morrell]

Regarding the water, as I understand it, the BRSCC just happened to have some water on site in a cupboard somewhere. It was made available to the BRDC (whom I believe paid for it) to hand out to the marshals.
Perhaps this explains why there wasn't enough for everyone.

Don't know what happened on Sunday though.

[Flying Muppet 2]

Allegedly, the line from the BRDC, after a couple of posts had requested some water once it was announced that the lunch-break would be shelved, was - "aren't your marshals trained properly? Surely they should know that they should take enough fluids with them."

Is it this attitude, or is it the lack of lunch, lunch-break, raffle, beers afterwards, or even a viable timetable that has caused the marshals numbers to REDUCE BY 50% from the corresponding meeting in 2000???

[Flying Muppet 2]

The SEATs were allegedly given 2 formation laps because several teams had fitted new brake pads and wanted to bed them in. However, that doesn't explain the following:

a. Why they then had a green flag lap as well;
b. Why the formation laps didn't take place in convoy style, whilst the mess from the previous race was cleared;
c. Why they drove so bloody slowly.

I'll vote for the BRSCC NW to run the meeting next year (probably have to run on the Fosters loop due to the lack of marshals!)

[andrew_powell98]

Simon according to Margrett and Alistor as we are volunteers ( and even Seat acknowledged it in the programme) we do not come uder HSE rules, therefore statutry Lunch is not required. However as some officials are paid officials they could claim HSE rules a lunch break of 30mins is required. I believe Alistor and Margrett were not here in BRSCC guise, but they the BRSCC did supply the water. Margrett was upset we did not get break in the heat.

[Mark Mitchell]

In general the Chief Marshals that I have worked for have been very good. Messrs Garrett, Sadler, Bromley, Gibson(s) Harding, Watson and others from various Clubs DO try their best to satisfy our needs/moans etc. However I feel that when they have to work alongside other Senior Officials - some who have spent little or no time on the bank (This weekend's Race Director for example) then they are fighting a lost cause.
Soon there will be no marshals to be Chief of!

[b1ackcr0w]

I think on this occasion all other considerations should be put to one side while we remind senior officials & circuit/track owners of a couple of things.

Hot Sunny days put your volunteers at a much higher risk of Sun Stroke, Dehydration & Sun Burn. Worse than that, their long exposure to strong Midday sun massively increases their Skin Cancer risk. All of these problems are damn painful, the last one is literally a killer. Legal considerations aside, taking no actions to help your guys avoid these complaints is unforgivable.

Costs are always tight I acknowledge. But there are some token efforts that will make a difference at a practical level. I have some suggestions that shouldn't break the banks.

1. Why not suggest to your competitors (espeicially at national level & above) that they offer caps as goodwill gifts to officials? They tangibly help reduce some of the effects of strong sun. It doesn't have to be mandatory, but once the hint is dropped with the reasoning behind it clearly explained, I bet they'd be some who'd help.

2. I could guff on all day about huts and on post facilities, but they are costly - what I will say that I think those such as at Donnington should be the target that clubs aim for.

3. Sun screen would be far too expensive to hand out to marshalls. Is there a good reason why regalia huts shouldn't selling it though (would it really hurt to sell it at cost?)? I bet what you don't sell to marshals you'd still get shot of to speccys...... Why not phone up the people who distribute Hawain Tropic et al and see if you couldn't set up event sponsorship at the same time?

4. Nicky Lauda had a sponsorship deal with a Mineral Water company for years - so my guess that's another product that could be tapped into for a bit of a sponsorship deal if given a chance...... i'm sure some sample products handed out with suitable fanfare could be a nice PR arrangement.

Just some thoughts.........

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by b1ackcr0w
Nicky Lauda had a sponsorship deal with a Mineral Water company for years - so my guess that's another product that could be tapped into for a bit of a sponsorship deal if given a chance...... i'm sure some sample products handed out with suitable fanfare could be a nice PR arrangement.

As I'm the meddling type and have a few contacts with PR companies etc I DID try around three weeks ago to secure some bottled water for the Gold Cup Meeting at Oulton in August.

I'll not name the Company, but they're based in the Highlands, near a Spring I guess!!
Their reply this morning was that they get many please from various organisations and unfortunately ours was not chosen this time!

[Asp]

Originally posted by Flying Muppet 2
The SEATs were allegedly given 2 formation laps because several teams had fitted new brake pads and wanted to bed them in. However, that doesn't explain the following:
c. Why they drove so bloody slowly.

The only logical explanation is that drivers had as much clue as us as to what was going on. Certainly some slowed down to wait on the grid - only to be greeted by, well, nothing. We got one message on the phone (2 formation then grid for start); which was followed by the message on the radio (Yes, there is a green flag lap!)

I would like to thank the Chief Marshals who did stick up for us (if at expense of being on the BRDC Christmas Card List) though, from speaking to Margaret Simpson it was clear where the problem was.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Flying Muppet 2
The SEATs were allegedly given 2 formation laps because several teams had fitted new brake pads and wanted to bed them in.

Now there's an interesting concept - bedding new pads in by driving so slowly that you don't need to use the brakes!

c. Why they drove so bloody slowly.

I'll offer:

a) TV - the series is going to be the subject of a 'reality' TV series, starting, if I remember correctly, on July 26th. A 'drivers' revolt' would make 'good' television.

b) They were trying to force the cancellation of the race so that they could get it run at full length at a subsequent meeting.

c) They are arrogant little who believe the whole world revolves around them.

Whatever the reason, they have lost the respect of a lot of marshals; I suspect a lot of the speccies were equally unimpressed.