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Old 12 Mar 2018, 15:31 (Ref:3807518)   #1
Full Top Max
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Full Top Max should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
1989 Sauber C9 chassis info

Hello

I'm trying to track down the whereabouts of C9's. According to racingsportscars, there were 6 of them built, 87.C9.01 and 02, and 88.C9 from 03 to 06.

87.C9.02 should be the 62T (T as in test?) car (no color accents) which Schlesser got up to 400 on Mulsanne, correct? I can't seem to find any mention of this, other than the fact that this car had the best laptime / pole position. I can't find info who was at the wheel when the 400 was broken during qualys.

And 88.C9.03 is Mass Reuter Dickens race winner, with fluorescent yellow accents.

I presume the 03 chassis is at Merc museum? Where's the 87.C9.02?
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Old 18 Mar 2018, 21:35 (Ref:3808967)   #2
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We have a chassis archive forum. http://tentenths.com/forum/forumdisp...aysprune=&f=77
It doesn’t look like it is in there. However after some time here I’ll move it to there to double the exposure.

Good luck in your quest.
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Old 19 Mar 2018, 00:48 (Ref:3809004)   #3
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Full Top Max should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks Adam43

I think I made a mistake in my first post regarding chassis #...

87.C9.02 is the test car 62T that was used in the race, so that means car 62 was in the qualys, breaking the lap record, and that's 88.C9.05
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Old 26 Apr 2018, 09:32 (Ref:3817466)   #4
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Full Top Max should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
One question, sorry to bump old threads, but is there a chance to see which C9 mr. Kriton Lendoudis has in the collection? I recall watching his interview somewhere, he mentioned that he's racing the C11 so there's no time for C9...
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Old 15 Apr 2019, 17:15 (Ref:3897709)   #5
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Resurrecting this thread after a while. As I posted about this subject on another forum I feel I should do I here too - I'm trying to decipher the "mystery" of 400 km/h car in the qualys of Mans 89. Looking around the net there are many sources that claim different things, so my wish is to set the record straight.

Source #1, Bonhams auction of the chassis 05 (back in 2008) says the following;
At Le Mans Jean-Louis Schlesser, heading up the all French driver lineup gained the pole with a special qualifying chassis and engine in C9-02 thanks to a loophole in the regulations. This special chassis had been officially entered in the race and was replaced after qualifying with a record 407km/h top speed by chassis C9-05, designated for this occasion as the T-car. The only race in which this chassis had white rear view mirrors rather than the usual yellow ones.

This suggests; Schlesser did the 407 km/h and gained pole with the "special chassis 02", used only in qualys
What they signed up as the T-car was actually chassis 05, race car.


Source #2 - database at racingsportscar dot com, the top qualifying time is listed as follows;
62T - Sauber C9 chassis 02 (Schlesser, Jabouille, Cudini) - 3:15.040

And on the results page, the fastest Sauber listed was 62T. But when you check the overview of Sauber C9 chassis at the Le Mans '89 it states the following:

62 = chassis 05, practiced only
62T = chassis 02, raced, finished 5th

Bonhams auction says chassis 05 is the T-car, racingsportscar claims its the chassis 02.


Source #3 - Motor Sport Magazine, edition from July 1989, article Coventry Anti Climax
Schlesser had established the fastest time at 3 min 15.04 sec (249.826 kph)...Schlesser's time was set with the race car, but in a special trim for qualifying. On Wednesday evening he'd been five seconds quicker than Kenny Acheson in a similar car but Acheson was 27 kph faster down the straight, according to the radar trap. It sounded unlikely but the Mercedes engineers believed it, pointing out that Acheson's low-downforce car was 400 rpm faster than Schlesser's, which was tuned more for handling.


Source #4 - didn't order Silver Arrows by Ian Bamsey book yet - but on eBay there's a seller that sells it and you can see big res previews of some pages, and on the page 106 it says;

This was at 8:20pm and a short time later Mauro's fears were to come true as Schlesser at the wheel of No 63 (probably a typo??) beat the Italian's time by a mere 0.63 secs. There was some consolation for the Acheson, Baldi & Branchatelli trio...........and at 7:32pm Acheson was timed at 248 mph on the Le Mans tour main road, the other two Saubers were times at 234 and 231 respectively for No 63 and No 62.

So, from this book of Sauber's insider at those times, it says that Acheson hit 400 km/h and Sauber 62 was going 371. That's +29 kmh difference, and the Motor Sport Magazine said "Acheson was 27 kph faster down the straight".


Source #5 - a scan from Rombo magazine recapping Le Mans 1989, probably a July issue.



The caption on the left mentions Baldi/Acheson #61 car (red mirrors) hitting 400, but then in the text you can see it mentioning Schlesser also going 400 on the "primo turno di prove" which would be the "first round of tests", not sure if it refers to qualys.

Mr. Murray from another forum said this;

According to the race report in Autosport magazine, the race rules at the time stated that cars running in practice with a T number could not set grid times, but could only be used to substitute for an identical car which had already qualified. This caused problems for Toyota, as Geoff Lees used Toyota 37T for their ‘pole attack’ and set a very quick time beaten only by Schlesser, only to have the time disallowed as the T-chassis had been used to set it.

Mercedes knew the rules, and therefore nominated chassis 05 as their official race chassis for the number 62, although they had no intention of using it in the actual race. This chassis had special ventilated discs and a ‘qualifying chip’ fitted, which none of the other team cars had, and was the chassis Schlesser used to set pole.

Chassis 02 had worn #62T during practice, but was always intended to be the chassis used in the race. So it was renumbered as #62, and was the chassis used by Schlesser, Jabouille and Cudini to finish fifth in the race.


And one french gentleman on a small french motorsport forum said to me;
Checked the official book and i made a mistake... The 400 km/h was made on wednesday by the 61 car with Acheson at the wheel... the pole by Schlesser with the "black" 62... also on wednesday.

So my theory is;

White mirrors chassis ran with both 62T and 62 numbering that weekend...and the black mirror one was the "chipped" car, made for short qualy sprint and not for 5000 km of racing. Which could mean;

- 62T white mirror car (endurance ready) does qualifying, sets whatever lap time
- 62 black mirror car (hotlap version) does qualifying, sets lap record gets the pole
- race begins, 62T white mirror car is on the pole position, without the T sticker





And this makes me conclude the C9 lineup at Le Mans (not applicable to other WEC races that year);

No. 61 : chassis 04 - red mirrors - Acheson low drag, ~400 in qualifying, second place in the race
No. 62 "fake" T : chassis 05 - white mirrors - fifth place
No. 62T: chassis 02 - black mirrors - Schlesser qualifying #1
No. 63 : chassis 03 - yellow mirrors - race winner



But if there's anyone with more info on this subject, let me know, chime in.
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