[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Firstly...

1. one has to assume that by 2024 things will back to normal but if covid is longer lasting, wouldn't content be more valuable in the future. imo people are going to go nuts for sports when they come back and people will pay...time will tell.

2. they have been saying that for years but always new venues opting to pay more and more. post covid, countries may prioritize tourism and investments into attracting more visitors...again time will tell.

3. fair point but perhaps why we are seeing more street courses being used and street circuits place the excitement in urban centers close to the hotels and entertainment zones...time will tell.

4. only so many sponsors you can get. cant get another beer company when you already have Heineken, dont need another telecom partner when you have TATA etc. will have to see how they do when their existing deals end...so time will tell.

about the loans...one can sell their equity/shares and the loans would still be owed by the corporation and not the shareholder doing the selling.

that said, i dont disagree with your points though...i have no idea what the global economy is going to look like in a couple of years.

[mark_l]

Maybe Rokit cancelled the contract as they were not getting the exposure on the race track that it was/wasn't paying for, so it could be Williams who were technically, through no fault of their own, in breach of the terms.

Rokit just let Williams announce the news to not make Rokit look bad, a mutually amicable split.

Just a thought

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by mark_l

Maybe Rokit cancelled the contract as they were not getting the exposure on the race track that it was/wasn't paying for, so it could be Williams who were technically, through no fault of their own, in breach of the terms.

Rokit just let Williams announce the news to not make Rokit look bad, a mutually amicable split.

Just a thought

True. And maybe Rokit sold a gazillion phones last year, each one coming with free cans of Rok, Rich Energy and T-minus??

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by peebee2

True. And maybe Rokit sold a gazillion phones last year, each one coming with free cans of Rok, Rich Energy and T-minus??

Currently their 3d pro phone which was £249 is now £99 plus 11 voluntary payments of £9.99 if you choose to pay them...what sort of deal is that?!

https://rokitphones.com/uk/phones/

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Currently their 3d pro phone which was £249 is now £99 plus 11 voluntary payments of £9.99 if you choose to pay them...what sort of deal is that?!

https://rokitphones.com/uk/phones/

LOL, maybe they think that’s how sponsorship works too?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

1. one has to assume that by 2024 things will back to normal but if covid is longer lasting, wouldn't content be more valuable in the future. imo people are going to go nuts for sports when they come back and people will pay...time will tell.

2. they have been saying that for years but always new venues opting to pay more and more. post covid, countries may prioritize tourism and investments into attracting more visitors...again time will tell.

3. fair point but perhaps why we are seeing more street courses being used and street circuits place the excitement in urban centers close to the hotels and entertainment zones...time will tell.

4. only so many sponsors you can get. cant get another beer company when you already have Heineken, dont need another telecom partner when you have TATA etc. will have to see how they do when their existing deals end...so time will tell.

about the loans...one can sell their equity/shares and the loans would still be owed by the corporation and not the shareholder doing the selling.

that said, i dont disagree with your points though...i have no idea what the global economy is going to look like in a couple of years.

On the loan front, surely Latif effectively 'owns' via his £50m loan secured on all Williams assets, who is going to invest more money with no security?

On the income front, Williams F1 revenue last year was only £95M and that included sponsorship income now lost or terminated, some of which will be repalced this year by Latif. So even with the budget cap of £130M, Williams is still short by perhaps £40M to put itself on the level playing field that Claire wants.

So, whoever buys it or invests in will also need to put in extra funding each year for probably the next 3 years whilst Williams re-builds revenue from sponsorship and perhaps better WCC results.

I don't think the F1 teams will ever deliver the sort of valuation they have in the past, generally they are becoming a sort of 'distress' sale that need further investment or partial salvation.

Sad to see Williams where they are, the last true privateer team run on their wits for decades.

[P38 in workshop]

Given that Williams is a listed company I suppose it is possible that the announcement had to be made for compliance reasons.After all.it didn't explicitly state that only a sale would be contemplated and I don't see Frank and Claire selling unless all other options have been exhausted.

[crmalcolm]

I get the impression that there is more to the split than simply ROKIT not making payments.

ROKIT's presence in motorsport seems to be on the rise (W Series, FE, BTCC....)
The original 3yr deal was replaced with a 5yr deal, and expanded to include their drinks and cities brands.

This seems to have been a result of some disagreement arising between WGPH and ROKIT, and WGPH have gone public first. It's a common tactic when companies have a disagreement, that you try and get your narrative out first. 'We've met all our contractual obligations', which could also be interpreted as 'we're not prepared to be flexible with ROKIT, and work together for both our benefits'.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I get the impression that there is more to the split than simply ROKIT not making payments.

ROKIT's presence in motorsport seems to be on the rise (W Series, FE, BTCC....)
The original 3yr deal was replaced with a 5yr deal, and expanded to include their drinks and cities brands.

This seems to have been a result of some disagreement arising between WGPH and ROKIT, and WGPH have gone public first. It's a common tactic when companies have a disagreement, that you try and get your narrative out first. 'We've met all our contractual obligations', which could also be interpreted as 'we're not prepared to be flexible with ROKIT, and work together for both our benefits'.

It terms of getting one's narrative out first, it could also mean, "We've honoured our side of the deal but they haven't".

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It terms of getting one's narrative out first, it could also mean, "We've honoured our side of the deal but they haven't".

Possibly. I'm just surmusing. Usually I would expect a joint statement, or comment from both parties by now.

[peebee2]

Maybe, maybe, but much more likely to be the obvious.

Companies House shows you hundreds of companies, ever changing names, ever changing directors, most no money.

The deal was a surprise to start with, and the three years into five last summer was a dead giveaway for a typical exchange of broken promises for bigger future promises.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Sad to see Williams where they are, the last true privateer team run on their wits for decades.

IMO, replacing Pat Symonds with Paddy Lowe was a mistake and not taking more Mercedes listed parts was a mistake. Jordan was in a similar place -- uncompetitive, no money -- but the model of using complete McLaren rear-ends and later complete Mercedes rear-ends on their cars has served them well.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

IMO, replacing Pat Symonds with Paddy Lowe was a mistake and not taking more Mercedes listed parts was a mistake. Jordan was in a similar place -- uncompetitive, no money -- but the model of using complete McLaren rear-ends and later complete Mercedes rear-ends on their cars has served them well.

Spot on. Ego has killed a great team

[steve nielsen]

Well, you just had to wait for it........

https://twitter.com/rich_energy/stat...44623748382721

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Well, you just had to wait for it........

https://twitter.com/rich_energy/stat...44623748382721

I have a bad feeling about this.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I have a bad feeling about this.

If there is even any substance in the story it just goes to show the depth of merde Williams must be in to even consider the thought.
Fire and frying pan spring to mind.

[headlesschicken]

That is at least a year old presentation, Rexona is still on the car....

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Well, you just had to wait for it........

https://twitter.com/rich_energy/stat...44623748382721

FFS can you imagine.... and to think I though Jaguar F1 was a mess ....

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Well, you just had to wait for it........

https://twitter.com/rich_energy/stat...44623748382721

They are tiresome. You are right, it was expected.

[Richard C]

When (if) Rich Energy has anything important to say, nobody will believe them. I had a thought earlier that made me look forward to the future. That is the day Rich Energy finally disappears.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by headlesschicken

That is at least a year old presentation, Rexona is still on the car....

Rexona and Williams parted company at the beginning of January. According to this article, when they signed with Williams in 2015, the Rexona deal was apparently worth €15m.

https://insidersport.com/2020/01/07/...d-rexona-exit/

[Moneyseeker]

An ex -insiders take on how Williams got where they are today...

https://the-race.com/formula-1/an-ex...eams-mistakes/

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

An ex -insiders take on how Williams got where they are today...

https://the-race.com/formula-1/an-ex...eams-mistakes/

Very interesting article. Hope Williams can have a better season than last. Testing pace suggests improvement, so fingers crossed

[wnut]

There was this on YouTube too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Otp4zwabVQ

How F1 Champions became backmarkers.

by CrankeeYankeeF1

Very well laid out summary of how Williams got to their present state.

Particular emphasis being placed on Bernie's 1997 F1 Concorde Agreement that caused the teams' share of the revenue to drop from 85% of the revenue earned by Bernie to 23%. Another boost to the manufacturers by depriving the smaller teams of revenue.

P.S. Much like the over priced PUs that we are currently stuck with.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

There was this on YouTube too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Otp4zwabVQ

How F1 Champions became backmarkers.

by CrankeeYankeeF1

Very well laid out summary of how Williams got to their present state.

Particular emphasis being placed on Bernie's 1997 F1 Concorde Agreement that caused the teams' share of the revenue to drop from 85% of the revenue earned by Bernie to 23%. Another boost to the manufacturers by depriving the smaller teams of revenue.

P.S. Much like the over priced PUs that we are currently stuck with.

There seems to be a few videos on YouTube about Williams and how they got to where they are now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZRO...gjDl-GRgu_FoNo