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26 Jan 2020, 02:57 (Ref:3953631) | #151 | |||
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Also, nice moving of the goldposts to avoid the fact that I pointed out that your point was utterly invalid. |
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26 Jan 2020, 03:24 (Ref:3953636) | #152 | |
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All in the past now.
New system, new aero targets, teams aren't directly invt with the final outcome. Apples, and oranges. |
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26 Jan 2020, 08:52 (Ref:3953648) | #153 | |
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26 Jan 2020, 10:15 (Ref:3953661) | #154 | ||||
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You said so yourself, remember?
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If so, you didn't do a very good job of it then. |
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27 Jan 2020, 11:08 (Ref:3953983) | #155 | ||
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27 Jan 2020, 11:34 (Ref:3953986) | #156 | ||||
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Source?
Sounds rather made up... DJRTP chassis are supplied as a complete spaceframe by PACE Innovations, i.e., it's the most straightforward way you could receive a spaceframe -- as a complete unit from control supplier. Quote:
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As Mostert racing an 8 year old car shows, it goes without saying that all COTF chassis are the same, and there is no disadvantage or advantage to using one chassis over another, assuming it has been correctly repaired to the original specification following major crashes. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 27 Jan 2020 at 11:41. |
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27 Jan 2020, 11:43 (Ref:3953989) | #157 | ||
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How curious... |
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27 Jan 2020, 17:42 (Ref:3954074) | #158 | ||
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Remember though, Nissan didn't lobby to be "unshafted" so that's on them... |
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27 Jan 2020, 19:10 (Ref:3954089) | #159 | |
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I may have just missed it but i have seen no mention of reduction of COG ballast. Surely with no Nissans racing, the Opal should be able to remove all of its ballast and the Mustang reduce down to the difference between the two.
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2 Feb 2020, 08:07 (Ref:3955245) | #160 | ||
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Are 888 building their own chassis'? correct me if I'm wrong. In the beginning Pace were going to be the only supplier? then teams pushed to have that changed so they could build their own chassis' in house. I can't see any reason to so other than to gain an advantage or they were worried they could get Friday afternoons chassis. Your comment that all the chassis' are the same is true to a point. For argument sake you take ten brand new hand built control chassis' from the current builders and flat patch them all. you put the same setup in all ten, and you use the same shocks-wheels and tyres- driver weight and fuel loads etc on the same scales and camber plates... for all ten cars, roll on roll off. I'd be surprised if the ride heights and corner weights were all the same across the ten. That's from experience. |
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2 Feb 2020, 08:51 (Ref:3955248) | #161 | ||
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After the Ford & Nissan's received their new panels the COG conversation stopped. This tells me both parties were satisfied with the outcome. The Kelly's stated that the lap times were so even across the brands that doing anything more was just splitting hairs. Also, when the COG tests were done in 2019 the ZB had to put 6.8kg into the roof of the car to match the Nissan. I'd say for sure had the FG-X been tested at the same time it too would have had to add weight to match the Nissan. Then we move to the aero debate again. Where is the prof the ZB enjoyed a significant advantage over the other two brands? Other than Larkham talking up the ZB aero advantage we never really saw it on track. Larkham was saying how later in the season when the cars were running on the faster tracks with the longer straights we'd see the ZB come into it's own. Really? it didn't happen, I don't remember much at all being said about the straight line speed of the ZB. So we have a FG-X win against the VF's in 2015. Then the VF's win 2016-17 against the FG-X. Then the new super fast ZB is introduced in 2018 still running against the FG-X and it doesn't win? don't come with the Scotty factor, as if that was true he'd of cleaned up big time the year earlier against the VF. And he'd have kept cleaning up right to the end of last season also, but he didn't. Side note. I will be backing Andre Heimgatner in the Mustang this season. |
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4 Feb 2020, 10:53 (Ref:3955613) | #162 | |
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Well said Jerico. Can't dispute the actual facts..................
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4 Feb 2020, 13:32 (Ref:3955633) | #163 | ||
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Glad I have some beer and popcorn left over from the 12 hour!
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12 Feb 2020, 15:15 (Ref:3957238) | #164 | ||||||
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Quote:
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Jamie Whincup said: Quote:
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16 Feb 2020, 08:13 (Ref:3957785) | #165 | ||
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Quote:
You have used a couple of pre season comments to try and back up your statement, using the Whincup media release regarding the ZB, which was made before the season started. The part or word of that release that I focused on was, "expected" advantage over the VF. I'm sure his comments at the end of the season would have been more telling than his comments before the car had raced and I'm not entirely sure that the Whincup's comments gave any credence to your argument. You're also putting weight behind the comment from Percat which was early in the season from the sounds of it, Percat stated that he feels a little more confident going into the corners with the ZB. This infers that the ZB has a different aero performance to the VF, bit it in no way implies that the ZB is significantly faster, race tracks are made up of more than just corners and when it comes to that there are many different types of corners. I don't have proof that the FG-X had a better COG than the Nissan, just as you have no proof that backs up your statement that the Ford and the Nissan teams were shafted in the 2018 season by the ZB. I base my comments on a few things but I will mention two which I feel are the most important. Firstly I considered Kelly Racing who were running the Nissan, they are a team that seems to go about their business in a more laidback manner, never pushing the boundaries they turn up week after week and race what they have. Please remember this is only my opinion and I am not criticizing the team, or how they go about their work. Opposed to DJRTP who have been seen to push the rules and the boundaries to the limit, and sometimes a little over? I couldn't see DJRTP quietly running the FG-X season after season, if there was a hint that their car had the worst COG in pitlane, also I would expect a professional outfit like DJRTP to have maximized their car in this area, probably more so than FPR and Kelly Racing. Another consideration was when the Nissan and FG-X were homologated two years apart, with the Nissan being the first. History has shown that each homologation the car evolve, so it's unlikely that DJRTP FG-X would have been inferior to the Nissan in this area and race results back this up. To my knowledge only the DJRTP Mustang was fitted with ballast exhaust and not their FG-X? Which was completely unnecessary with the huge advantage the Mustang already enjoyed, whilst the ballast exhaust may not have been illegal it wasn't legal either. Two rules you often find in the motor racing rulebooks, one is if it doesn't say you can then you can't, the other is a component must not have a secondary function, these two rules clear up a lot of grey area's Taking everything into consideration I'd speculate that the smart money would most likely be on the DJRTP FG-X having the better COG than the Nissan. I stand by the comments I made in my previous post and feel the facts back up what I have stated, I could go into more details and make other points, but I don't have the time or the inclination to get into a he said she said pointless debate, splitting hairs over maybe a couple of Kgs here or there from two seasons past Last edited by Jerico; 16 Feb 2020 at 08:32. |
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17 Feb 2020, 00:57 (Ref:3957876) | #166 | |
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Media fluff pieces should not be considered anecdotal evidence that one car will do this, and t'other that... |
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17 Feb 2020, 04:31 (Ref:3957893) | #167 | |
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Indeed, if Commodore retains the unfair advantage it gained after the unprecedented and unwarranted Pukekohe upgrade package (with an outrageous 7 wins out of 9, despite Ford having all the best teams), it will be very upsetting for Ford supporters.
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17 Feb 2020, 05:05 (Ref:3957897) | #168 | |||
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If you look up irrational hyperbole in the dictionary, it should link to this post. |
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17 Feb 2020, 05:33 (Ref:3957901) | #169 | |
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I wonder if they'll have review like they did for the commodore last year?
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17 Feb 2020, 09:49 (Ref:3957958) | #170 | |
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Really?? Team ( singular ) maybe, and that's arguable, but definitely not teams plural. Also, have you only watched the last 2 years? You might want to check out the last 10 years and see who was regularly at the pointy end of the field
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17 Feb 2020, 09:50 (Ref:3957959) | #171 | |
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18 Feb 2020, 12:54 (Ref:3958211) | #172 | |||
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It wasn't actually illegal when fitted, but was removed when the rulemakers threatened to ban it, citing it was against the spirit of the rules. |
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__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
18 Feb 2020, 13:24 (Ref:3958221) | #173 | ||
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18 Feb 2020, 14:33 (Ref:3958239) | #174 | ||
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Recall the "double diffuser" where a slot was not a slot if not visible "when viewed directly from below", and thereby complying to the regulations to the letter. |
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23 Feb 2020, 09:34 (Ref:3959356) | #175 | ||
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__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
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