1987/1988 New Zealand Group A and Production Saloon Car Racing - Discussion & Results

racer69 · 21 Dec 2011, 08:15 (Ref:3002551)

This thread here is to discuss the late-1987 and early 1988 touring car events in New Zealand

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendonwood1

My memory is that the 1987/88 races consisted of the Nissan Mobil 500 at Wellington, the Benson & Hedges 500 at Pukekohe a week later and a New Zealand Touring Car Championship of several rounds in January.

I don't believe that there were any South Pacific Touring Car Series rounds in NZ during 1987.

I suggest we start a thread.

The Channel 9 TV coverage of the 1987 AGP continually calls the 32-lap Group A race as Round 1 of the South Pacific Touring Car Championship, and the "Racing Car News" report on the race opened it's account with;

Quote:

The first round of the South Pacific Touring Car Championship didn't exactly have the "world class" fields we'd seen at Bathurst, Calder and Wellington - the Ravaglia's, Percy's, Soper's, Ludwig's, Pirro's etc weren't there, but who really cared? We had Brock, Johnson, Fury, Grice, Seton, Bond and Perkins, and they were more than enough as far as the crowd was concerned

So there was at least the intention of another SPTCC to start with.... i'm only assuming that New Zealand rounds would have featured as per the 1986/1987 series, but perhaps not as brendonwood alluded to, or perhaps it just fizzled out as a whole.

The WTCC round at Wellington attracted a quality grid, included some surprises like the SRS Volvo's, Tony Longhurst in one of the BMW Motorsport M3's etc...

The B&H 500 a week later at Pukekohe used the longer track, and featured a great scrap between the Allan Grice/Gianfranco Brancatelli BMW M3 (the Cecotto/Brancatelli car from Bathurst/Calder/Wellington WTCC races) and the Bowkett/Baigent Nissan Skyline, and a controversial ending due to the Nissan drivers calculating the race distance on the old track, not the new one (IIRC)

Plenty to talk about anyway

KA · 21 Dec 2011, 09:28 (Ref:3002578)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

The Channel 9 TV coverage of the 1987 AGP continually calls the 32-lap Group A race as Round 1 of the South Pacific Touring Car Championship, and the "Racing Car News" report on the race opened it's account with;

So there was at least the intention of another SPTCC to start with.... i'm only assuming that New Zealand rounds would have featured as per the 1986/1987 series, but perhaps not as brendonwood alluded to, or perhaps it just fizzled out as a whole.

The FIA announced an Asia-Pacific Touring Car Championship for the latter half of the 1988 season (October/November)- According to Frank de Jong, it was originally schduled as Bathurst, Macau, Calder and Wellington, but ended up as Bathurst, Wellington, Pukekohe and Fuji.
How early was this announced, and if it was first proposed at the beginning of the year, could it have led to the ditching of any proposed South Pacific Series over the winter of 87/8?

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Pages/APTCC.html

MalcolmC · 21 Dec 2011, 09:30 (Ref:3002579)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

So there was at least the intention of another SPTCC to start with.... i'm only assuming that New Zealand rounds would have featured as per the 1986/1987 series, but perhaps not as brendonwood alluded to, or perhaps it just fizzled out as a whole.

An initial look through my info seems to agree with this. The Auto Action report on the Adelaide GP Support Race (14-Nov) states that it is round 1 of the SPTCC and they admit they have no idea where round 2 is to be run.

The key race meetings for the NZ Summer were:
26-Oct-87, Wellington, WTCC Round 10. (This was held on a Monday which was a public holiday in NZ).
1-Nov-87, Pukekohe, B&H 500.
3-Jan-88, Manfeild, B&H International Series (aka NZTCC) Round 1.
10-Jan-88, Baypark, B&H Series Rnd 2.
17-Jan-88, Pukekohe, B&H Series Rnd 3.
24-Jan-88, Wigram, B&H Series Rnd 4.
30-Jan-88, Timaru (Levels), B&H Series Rnd 5.
The was the end of the season for the top cars with Trevor Crowe winning the 1988 NZTCC in his BMW M3.

However just to complicate things a little, the under 2 litre Group A cars competed for a separate championship (NZ 2 Litre TCC) and as well as the five B&H series rounds they raced at two more meetings:
7-Feb-88, Teretonga.
14-Feb-88, Ruapuna.
This championship was won by Brett Riley in a Toyota Celica (If I remember correctly it was the ST-162 body shape with a boot rather than the hatchback).

I haven't found any mention of the SPTCC in the programme for the B&H series so perhaps Dick Johnson can claim to be the SPTCC champion. I'll post some more info soon.

Malcolm.

**chunterer** · 21 Dec 2011, 09:30 (Ref:3002580)

Hmm what did Spicey Gricey make of the little buzz bomb then?

He seemed to have sampled a few different Group A cars around that 12 month period.

Commodore, M3, Skyline.. Did he ever have a go in an RS500?

KA · 21 Dec 2011, 09:38 (Ref:3002584)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

The key race meetings for the NZ Summer were:
26-Oct-87, Wellington, WTCC Round 10. (This was held on a Monday which was a public holiday in NZ).
1-Nov-87, Pukekohe, B&H 500.
3-Jan-88, Manfeild, B&H International Series (aka NZTCC) Round 1.
10-Jan-88, Baypark, B&H Series Rnd 2.
17-Jan-88, Pukekohe, B&H Series Rnd 3.
24-Jan-88, Wigram, B&H Series Rnd 4.
30-Jan-88, Timaru (Levels), B&H Series Rnd 5.
The was the end of the season for the top cars with Trevor Crowe winning the 1988 NZTCC in his BMW M3.

Interesting that after moving to the October slot for the WTCC round (and therefore running two races in '87, Jan and Oct), Wellington seems to have stayed there for 1988, enabling it to fit into the calendar for the Asia-Pacific series run over October/Novermber 88, before reverting to it's 'traditional' January date for 1989.
Is this why Auto Action had no idea where the second SPTCC round would be- the FIA were already talking about canning it in favour of something else later in the year?

MalcolmC · 21 Dec 2011, 10:04 (Ref:3002592)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Wellington seems to have stayed there for 1988, enabling it to fit into the calendar for the Asia-Pacific series run over October/Novermber 88, before reverting to it's 'traditional' January date for 1989.

The 1989 Wellington Nissan Mobil 500 was 3-Dec-89.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Is this why Auto Action had no idea where the second SPTCC round would be- the FIA were already talking about canning it in favour of something else later in the year?

I'll keep looking but most of the rumours/reports on international touring car championships in late '87 are about the demise of the WTCC so any talk of the SPTCC seems to have been overshadowed.

Malcolm.

racer69 · 22 Dec 2011, 05:22 (Ref:3003010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

The FIA announced an Asia-Pacific Touring Car Championship for the latter half of the 1988 season (October/November)- According to Frank de Jong, it was originally schduled as Bathurst, Macau, Calder and Wellington, but ended up as Bathurst, Wellington, Pukekohe and Fuji.
How early was this announced, and if it was first proposed at the beginning of the year, could it have led to the ditching of any proposed South Pacific Series over the winter of 87/8?

The November 1987 issue of "Racing Car News" has a story on the FISA announcement of the 1988 international motorsport calendar. This is when the axing of the WTCC was announced, to be replaced with the rejuvenated ETCC and an "Oceania Touring Car Championship" (other calendars released at the same time were F3000, World Sportscar & WRC)

The 1988 Oceania Touring Car Championship was announced as;

Rd1 - October 2 - Bathurst
Rd2 - October 9 - Calder
Rd3 - October 23 - Wellington
Rd4 - November 13 - Mt Fuji
*plus one or two other events (but they are not speculated on in the story)

In the course of time the series was re-named the Asia-Pacific Touring Car Championship, Calder pulled out (Mike Raymond mentions during the Bathurst commentary that circuit owner Bob Jane was just fed up with FISA organisation). Macau obviously came into contention then went out again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Hmm what did Spicey Gricey make of the little buzz bomb then?

The Auto Action report i have featured no direct quotes from Grice (nor Brancatelli). Grice steered some good M3's in 1987 though, the Schnitzer example at Spa as well as the ex-CiBiEmme car here, so he was given some good vehicles to form an opinion (he also raced an M3 in Japan in mid-1989)

The AA report doesn't have any results of the B&H 500, there was a decent entry though.

Andrew Miedecke/Phil Mhyre (Sierra - his OXO car, though sponsored by DSIR as at Wellington)
Grice/Brancatelli (Mark Petch ex-CibiEmme M3)
Baigent/Bowkett (Skyline)
Trevor Crowe/Robbie Francevic (Archibald M3)
Charlie O'Brien/? (Archibald 635)
Graeme Camaron/? (presumebly Wayne Wilkinson - Commodore)
Inky Tulloch/Gary Croft (U-Bix Copiers Volvo 240)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Wellington seems to have stayed there for 1988, enabling it to fit into the calendar for the Asia-Pacific series run over October/Novermber 88, before reverting to it's 'traditional' January date for 1989.

I don't think the Nissan-Mobil Series ever reverted back to January, it always stayed in the November/December period, and acted as a 'season-ender' for the Australian teams (and Schnitzer).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

(If I remember correctly it was the ST-162 body shape with a boot rather than the hatchback)

One of these cars was driven by John Smith in the 1987 AGP support race (presumebly because TTA was short of cars after Bathurst).

Member malscar has a picture of it from this event.

MalcolmC · 22 Dec 2011, 08:40 (Ref:3003044)

brendonwood1 · 22 Dec 2011, 11:07 (Ref:3003126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

The Auto Action report i have featured no direct quotes from Grice (nor Brancatelli). Grice steered some good M3's in 1987 though, the Schnitzer example at Spa as well as the ex-CiBiEmme car here, so he was given some good vehicles to form an opinion (he also raced an M3 in Japan in mid-1989)

The AA report doesn't have any results of the B&H 500, there was a decent entry though.

Andrew Miedecke/Phil Mhyre (Sierra - his OXO car, though sponsored by DSIR as at Wellington)
Grice/Brancatelli (Mark Petch ex-CibiEmme M3)
Baigent/Bowkett (Skyline)
Trevor Crowe/Robbie Francevic (Archibald M3)
Charlie O'Brien/? (Archibald 635)
Graeme Camaron/? (presumebly Wayne Wilkinson - Commodore)
Inky Tulloch/Gary Croft (U-Bix Copiers Volvo 240)

.

Yes, the entry was good. This was actually the first ever motor race, which I attended as a 13 year old with my father.

Miedeckie grabbed the pole from Brancatelli, Baigent, Cameron, Kieran Wills (Skyline), O'Brien and Crowe.

In the race itself, Miedeckie led for the first half hour until turbo problems intervened. Brancatelli took over the lead and kept it until the pitstop. However, the BMW refused to restart for Grice and they lost valuable time, ending up 30 seconds behind the Baigent Nissan.
Grice hunted down the Nissan and the two engaged in a seven lap dice before Grice got through and then led to th end.

The top three were:
1. Brancatelli/Grice, BMW M3
2. Baigent/Bowkett, Nissan Skyline
3. Crowe/Francevic, BMW M3

The notes are from the same AA article racer69 is referring to. A bad photograph of the article is attached.

brendonwood1 · 22 Dec 2011, 11:39 (Ref:3003139)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

Charlie O'Brien/? (Archibald 635)
Graeme Camaron/? (presumebly Wayne Wilkinson - Commodore)

Thanks to the links to the entry and qualifying results for the Wellington race as provided by MalcomC, we can be fairly confident that Avon Hyde shared the 635CSi with O'Brien and that Wayne Wilkinson shared the CanAm Commodore with Graeme Cameron.

brendonwood1 · 22 Dec 2011, 11:47 (Ref:3003145)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

Thanks for scanning and providing all these articles.
I had the issue of Auto Action with the NM500 report in it until I sold it on Ebay a few years ago. I did take a photocopy of the race report, but your scan is much clearer.

One point of interest with the Wellington race is that the only Sierras to perform well in qualifying were the Eggenburger Sierras. The two Johnson Sierras and the Miedeckie Sierra seemed to have their share of problems throughout qualifying.
Also, the track clearly suited the Commodores, with Grice in particular putting in a very good show in the race.

MalcolmC · 23 Dec 2011, 07:43 (Ref:3003464)

ian beckett · 23 Dec 2011, 09:21 (Ref:3003480)

Wonderful photos Malcolm,you have brightened up a miserable damp British morning! Is it possible that you have other shots particularly of the BMW's which you may know I am trying to follow? Thanks again and also to all the guys who have added articles and race reports from this era.Ian.

**chunterer** · 23 Dec 2011, 09:44 (Ref:3003487)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...-10_BMW-22.jpg

Being rhd is that one one of the ex Sytner, previously CC cars that went over?

MalcolmC · 24 Dec 2011, 06:14 (Ref:3003800)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian beckett

Is it possible that you have other shots particularly of the BMW's which you may know I am trying to follow?

Here's a few more photos of the same BMWs.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...10_BMW-40b.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...10_BMW-46b.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...10_BMW-47b.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...10_BMW-47c.jpg

Malcolm.

MalcolmC · 24 Dec 2011, 06:44 (Ref:3003806)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...-10_BMW-22.jpg

Being rhd is that one one of the ex Sytner, previously CC cars that went over?

The race programme says McKellar had bought the car from Graham Lorimer. So unless Graham had more than one 635, that would be the DSIR sponsored car (it was silver at the time).
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...2/DSIR-BMW.jpg

The above article says "The BMW 635 CSI won overall in the 1986 Nissan (Mobil) Series.." and goes on to mention engine details so I guess they're referring to this 635 rather than just the car type. According to the Nissan Mobil 500 Yearbook for 1986 the series winner was the Crosby/MacKinnon 635. (This is a poster from the Jan-87 NM500 featuring a 1986 photo).
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/..._NM500_001.jpg

I had wondered if it was also this car. For no other reason than the colour, but now that you mention it, it also happens to be RHD.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...2/Egg-BMWa.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...2/Egg-BMWb.jpg
The photos are from a car show in Auckland in 2000.

Malcolm

KA · 29 Dec 2011, 08:26 (Ref:3005064)

RHD Group A 635s were always a bit of a rarity, even in the UK and Australia/NZ- even the JPS cars were LHD as I remember?

That ex-Eggenberger car throws a spanner into the works though- I don't recall Eggenberger running anything but LHD cars, so has it been converted at some point since it first landed in NZ?

The main (only?) RHD cars in Europe were the CC pair- one of which ended up in Australia with Charlie O'Brien, via Frank Sytner towards the end of 1985 (between the Silverstone TT in September and Bathurst AFAIK). AFAIK Sytner's own cars were LHD. The O'Brien car was yellow at Bathurst, but also ran in red 'State Coal' colours in NZ
http://media.photobucket.com/image/C...agic/85044.jpg
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/img046-1.jpg
As I remember, CC had a spare car, which was an early Eggenberger chassis- but was it ever converted to RHD?

Lorimer's DSIR car and the blue/yellow Crosby/MacKinnon 'Trans-Tasman Insurance' car were both RHD
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/img037-1.jpg
http://www.nzfmr.co.nz/images/bmw-hi...5-csi-1986.jpg

MalcolmC · 29 Dec 2011, 10:18 (Ref:3005084)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

That ex-Eggenberger car throws a spanner into the works though

I've just noticed that the photo with the letter from Eggenberger Motorsport isn't readable when I download the file from Photobucket, although the original that I uploaded isn't too bad. Can you guys read the letter?

The following is what I can make out, but I'll get the photo negative scanned tomorrow to see if it has any more resolution than print that I've scanned. The postcode after Bracknell is a rough guess.
Reading some of the '635 thread' casts some doubt on the chassis number (the RA2 numbers continuing on from the RA1 numbers, rather than going back to 01) but that part of the photo looks reasonably clear. Perhaps it's a typo in the letter.

21st November 1985

Dear Mr Hicks

We refer to you letter received on November 14th.

It took us some time to search in our records to find the information you desire to compile the history of your car.

The BMW 635CSi, Chassis no. E24-RA2-01 was built by Ruedi Eggenberger between December 82 and February 83 and competed in the European Touring Car Championship in the season of 83. It was only driven by Helmet Kelleners (D) and Umberto Grano (I) except for Johnny Cecotto who raced as third driver at the 24-hours at Spa.

We enclosed photographs of the drivers and the car in the original Team-colours. Find also attached the race schedule for the season 1983 with the final results and some additional information.

The car was sold to BMW Ltd.. Ellesfield Avenue, GB-Bracknell EG 124 TA on 10th November 1983 but that you probably know.

We hope to have been helpful to you to get all the information together you require and remain.

Sincerely yours
EGGENBERGER MOTORSPORT

KA · 29 Dec 2011, 11:50 (Ref:3005118)

Thanks Malcolm, I couldn't make out the letter in the pic, so that's exactly what I hoping you'd post!!!

IIRC, CC Motorsport kept the Eggenberger car as a spare and test car- I'm not sure if they ever raced it? As I remember, the team had a couple of significant shunts with their regular race cars (both RHD), but on both occasions, Vince Woodman seems to have sat out races until the race car was rebuilt (IIRC he sustained some injury in one of these anyway) rather than use the spare.

To recap the story of the CC Motorsport cars from the various 635 and Australian/NZ threads, the three cars were apparently sold to Frank Sytner over the winter of 1984/5, and he seems to have sold them on at various points during 1985, while continuing to race his existing white LHD cars.
The two RHD race cars went respectively to Mike Newman in the UK early in the year (Mike ran most of the BTCC season, debuting the car at Oulton in April) and Charlie O'Brien in Australia around September/October (it did the Silverstone TT in September as a second Sytner entry and O'Brien raced it at Bathurst).

IIRC, it was suggested in the 635 thread that the spare went to Belgium, but it seems to have ended up in NZ...
Big question that comes to mind, is did CC convert the car to RHD, or was it done in NZ?

The postcode for BMW GB in Ellesfield Avenue Bracknell should be RG12 8TA

MalcolmC · 29 Dec 2011, 23:40 (Ref:3005357)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

I'll get the photo negative scanned tomorrow to see if it has any more resolution than print that I've scanned.

Here's the new scan.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...2/Egg-BMWd.jpg

It's pretty much as I posted above, although the date of the letter is 1989 rather than 1985.

I've also found in the book Bathurst 1986/87, Pg 14.
"Teams had a fortnight to recover before the six hours race at Pukekohe..." (late 1985) "...an ex-Frank Sytner BMW arrived in the country and was leased to Crosby and Wellington's Lew McKinnon"

This is the car that may have been bought by Graham Lorimer and raced as the DSIR car, and may then have been sold to McKellar and painted yellow and turned up at WTCC Round 10, and just happens to be the same colour as the Eggenberger car, which was sold to BMW GB in 1983. See my Post #16 for the rather tenuous links. All the above cars being RHD.

Given that the car arrived in NZ in late '85, about a year after the Sytner/Morton car, perhaps the Crosby car did go to Belguim for a while.

Dougal said on the '635 thread' that Graham Lorimer had owned his Sytner/Morton car. This car is LHD before and after Lorimer's ownership and Lorimer's DSIR car was RHD. Changing a car to RHD here in NZ might help the local drivers feel at home, but I'm not sure why a car would be converted back to LHD when it has stayed in NZ. So perhaps Lorimer has owned two 635s?

Malcolm

MalcolmC · 30 Dec 2011, 06:17 (Ref:3005403)

Another quote from the Jan '86 Nissan Mobil 500 programme, Pg.51:
"Former world motorcycle champion (like Cecotto) Graeme Crosby hasn't had long to settle into his leased Bee-Em (like O'Brien's an ex-Frank Sytner car)..."

And from the Jan '87 Nissan Mobil 500 programme, Pg.80:
"The 32 year old Lorimer... bought the car, raced by Graeme Crosby and Lew McKinnon in the last Nissan Mobil"

Now for some more info on the Sytner/Morton car.
Also from the Jan '87 Nissan Mobil 500 programme, Pg.70/71:
"No.18, BMW635CSi, John Sorensen, Brian Musgrove.... The Bee-Em is an ex-Frank Sytner car - an '84 model - brought to NZ for Sytner and Aucklander John Morton to run in the inaugural Nissan Sport 500 and subsequently raced by Morton and Jim Richards last year."
Which means in the Oct '87 NM500/WTCC Rnd 10 this was probably the same car.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...-10_BMW-31.jpg
Amusingly this car is described in the book Bathurst 1986/87, Pg.19 as "...the slowest 635 in the southern hemishere - not even gentleman Jim could make it go quickly"

Malcolm

racer69 · 30 Dec 2011, 06:21 (Ref:3005406)

Don't know if this helps;

Typing in "Graeme Crosby BMW" on google brings up this pic

The "Benson & Hedges" logo on the side indicate this is a pre-Nissan/Mobil series event. It looks like its in the ex-BMW GB/CC Motorsport colours, and is RHD.

MalcolmC · 30 Dec 2011, 06:32 (Ref:3005407)

Thanks for that Racer. I'd never seen a photo of the car prior to the NM500. The photo is possibly from the 6 hour race at Pukekohe mentioned in my Post #20, straight after the car arrived in NZ.

Malcolm

KA · 30 Dec 2011, 09:29 (Ref:3005452)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

Don't know if this helps;

Typing in "Graeme Crosby BMW" on google brings up this pic

The "Benson & Hedges" logo on the side indicate this is a pre-Nissan/Mobil series event. It looks like its in the ex-BMW GB/CC Motorsport colours, and is RHD.

There's no doubt about the origin of the Crosby car then....definitely one of the CC cars..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16329766@N07/5953934518/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendaman/5646926661/

I'm guessing it must be the 'spare' rather one of the 'race' cars- As we've said,- Mike Newman bought one early in '85, continued to race it in the BTCC until he moved on to an RS500 for 1988, and AFAIK still has it- it kept a variation of the original CC colours throughout it's race career...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627347703055

The other was still in CC colours when it was leased by Sytner to a couple of South African drivers for the TT in September, http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627858081525

before shipping it to Australia where O'Brien had it resprayed yellow for Bathurst in October...
http://media.photobucket.com/image/c...agic/85044.jpg

...then red for the Nissan-Mobil races in Jan/Feb...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817...57606882601980

...where it raced against the Crosby car, now in yellow/blue 'Trans-Tasman' colours
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817...7606882601980/

brendonwood1 · 30 Dec 2011, 13:22 (Ref:3005518)

Browsing "Graeme Crosby BMW" on google resulted in finding this website, with a history of BMW racing in New Zealand: http://www.nzfmr.co.nz/info_pages.ph...te/pages_id/46

The article mentions that the Graeme Crosby car is the "the first ever Group A BMW 635CSi, chassis number RA001."
This may indicate that it is the ex-Eggenburger car?

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