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19 Sep 2008, 22:30 (Ref:2293982) | #26 | ||
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The problem is, you can't predict the impact.
If you're going in at 45deg, then a concrete wall is good, and tyres probably not so. Head on? Anything's better than concrete. Except trees, of course (rally boys will understand. At 25deg, I'll take tyres with earth, because empty ones will probably throw you back onto the track in front of the traffic and concrete will cause a nasty twist injury on the neck... So what I really want is lots of distance between the track and the wall. Unless I'm a marshal, because now I'm at more risk than the drivers. Not easy, is it? Any improvement in one area tends to have an opposite effect on another. |
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19 Sep 2008, 23:15 (Ref:2294008) | #27 | ||
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I think PI is now a lot safer than Bathurst.
What improvements have been made to Bathurst since the sad events of 2006? At least at PI they have done something which is a lot more than the people at the "sacred site" have done. |
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21 Sep 2008, 00:03 (Ref:2294443) | #28 | ||
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Fair comment Champcarman.
A track like Bathurst will punish more small driver errors than PI. |
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21 Sep 2008, 03:35 (Ref:2294479) | #29 | |||
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Short statured drivers...
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22 Sep 2008, 11:39 (Ref:2295144) | #30 | ||
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275 GTB-4, when I said "Small" Driver error, I was not talking about the nominal seated height of the carbon based ballast................
But you knew that |
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22 Sep 2008, 12:27 (Ref:2295186) | #31 | |||
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Guilty!
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The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!! |
22 Sep 2008, 21:53 (Ref:2295677) | #32 | ||
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whoopsy
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24 Sep 2008, 08:33 (Ref:2296703) | #33 | |||
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I'm an example, last year i hit a wall of empty tyres side-on at 150km/h. I walked away and the car cost about $3500 to repair. This year i hit an earth filled tyre wall on the same track at 90km/h at a 45 degree angle. I fractured my arm and injured my cocxyx (sp.) and the repair bill is going to be about $5500 - $6000. |
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24 Sep 2008, 11:25 (Ref:2296819) | #34 | ||
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Ouch!! hope you are fully recovered David.
(coccyx) |
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25 Sep 2008, 00:00 (Ref:2297357) | #35 | ||
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I agree with everyone here who have said that Air Filled Tyres are far better.. Earth Filled tyres, make the impact harder than what it should be because the energy has now-where to escape to, reducing the severity of the accident..
I have always doubted PI to be a safe race track.. Having been there, I call it as a very dangerous one at that, because you have nothing but water or sand if you make a mistake. To say one certain dev driver almost ended up in the drink at the end of turn 1 is a bit of a farce, but when things almost happen like that you question the safety of the circuit. AJ's damage bill could have been almost certainly cut in half, if there had been air filled tyres. End of story... PI isnt safe for ANYTHING unless they make some changes.. |
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25 Sep 2008, 00:18 (Ref:2297367) | #36 | |||
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I'm not having a go at you, but fair effort if anyone ever ended up in drink or sand down there. I must say it would be a fair effort for anyone to fall off at turn 1 and end up in the drink, as they would have to clear the grave trap that's now down there, the other side of circuit, maybe another gravel trap, one of the infamous tyre walls that surround the circuit, spectator area, tree's and then a cliff face. Almost half a kilometre of distances and more obstacles than a scene out of the Simpsons of Homer falling down a cliff face. Parts of that track are a damn site safer than they where about 8-10 years ago when they started to make some changes down there. But to what extent do they need to butcher up the place to meet a so call appropriate level of 'safe'. |
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25 Sep 2008, 02:23 (Ref:2297403) | #37 | ||
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25 Sep 2008, 03:18 (Ref:2297408) | #38 | ||
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There's that weekend, and there was the World Superbike Round I think the year or before. I remember sitting down in front of the the old Foxtel and at the start of the telecast the commentator goes "no folks, that's not St.Andrew Scotland, but Phillip Island Australia!"
The only other drink in the place is the dam within the infield, which once again any chance of landing in it carriers a degree of difficulty higher than any current scale. Same goes for that little pond between turns 3 and 6, if it's still there. Unless Fernandez_Angel is talking about $8 can's of drink they expect you buy down there...... |
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25 Sep 2008, 03:39 (Ref:2297412) | #39 | ||
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Didn't Moffat go close to landing in a dam back in the day?
The dam between 3 and 6 is still there.. |
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25 Sep 2008, 08:41 (Ref:2297485) | #40 | ||
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I believe he did end up in it, so says the story about the crash anyway.
By the way the water was around 1 metre deep up against the tyre wall. It was caused by earth works which allowed dirt to wash down and block the drains under the track and the water had to go somewhere as almost all the land along the front straight and infield drains through that drainage point to the dam between 3 & 6 and then over the cliff into Bass Strait. They stopped qualifying when the water crossed the white line at the edge of the circuit. Took several pumps and lots of shovel work to sort it all out. |
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26 Sep 2008, 10:36 (Ref:2298251) | #41 | ||
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Last time I looked the dam between 3 and 6 was slowly being filled in.
And the fence on the outside of turn 3 is armco, behind a mile of gravel trap. And the dam at the outside of turn 8, gone years ago, wall pushed back and flagpoint moved. I'd like to know which certain driver almost ended up in the drink. Although it would be possible to reach the tyre wall near FP 2.6 if the throttle stuck open and the brakes and brain failed coming into turn one. Perhaps a 1 in a 500,000 chance....you can argue the odds if you wish. Seriously, when was the last time some of you looked at the place? Yes, there's still earth filled tyre walls but there's also many air filled and belted tyre walls as well. Could the owners do more? Yes. Without doubt they could. But they have never stopped improving the place either. |
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5 Oct 2008, 09:06 (Ref:2304548) | #42 | ||
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I hit an air filled tyre barrier at the Hayshed at in 2003 in a sidecar race. We left the track at about 150 and backed into the tyres. I broke my back and my passenger broke his leg. Both of us have since recovered. I would hate to think what a concrete barrier would have done to us.
I hope in trying to make it "safe" for cars they dont make it dangerous for bikes. Jeff |
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5 Oct 2008, 11:09 (Ref:2304597) | #43 | |||
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Sailed..
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5 Oct 2008, 21:21 (Ref:2304985) | #44 | |||
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In any form of racing if a wall is in a position where it is likely to be hit "Head on" it will have a suplimentary form of protection being either tyre bundles or in the case of motorcycle events an air fence to help cushion some of the impact. In my original post when I started this thread I was referring to the use of earth filled tyre walls as the main protection to keep the competing vehicles away from spectators and marshals. I'm not sure of the exact where abouts at the Hayshed you had your off Jeff (on the left before or on the right side before or after) but your post suggests it wasn't a glancing blow collision but for both cars & bikes in a glancing blow a solid wall is better than tyres which grab the vehicle and can throw it anywhere as opposed to sliding along the wall to a stop. I still stand by my original post statement that concrete walls are safer than earth filled tyres but do agree that in certain areas there MUST be additional protection where a head on or severe angle rather than glancing blow collision can occur. |
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14 Oct 2008, 05:02 (Ref:2311839) | #45 | ||
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I was, unfortunately, prophetic in my crticism of the Bathurst organisers failure to do anything about the section of race track where the tragic death of Mark Porter occurred in 2006. Perhaps now something will be done. The wall should be moved back and run off area of some sort put in.
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14 Oct 2008, 05:32 (Ref:2311855) | #46 | |||
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One thing that should be done, is the all media, including Channel 7 be banned in talking about Murphy's 2.06 lap time and as to who is going to break it. Keep pushing the point and all your going to do is encourage them to try harder and more will get hurt as a result. Rant over, back to the original topic.... |
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14 Oct 2008, 06:40 (Ref:2311876) | #47 | |||
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