March 722 - 732 - 742 - 752

[Jeremy Jackson]

Anthony Hansford raced the "ex Choularton/Crawford" 73B as a 732 (with STP livery and a Cosworth BDG!) in HSCC and occasional BOSS events around 95-98. Since he races an Arrows/Footwork now, not sure if he still has the March.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Also have you seen ref. to Alan Rollinson out and about in what was called 732 but actually ex. Coombes/Depailler 722 , which should give it -45. Note states had just been collected from works and called dev. car with side rads. , new nose and only March in F.A. upto current F2 spec.

Bryan

I've just been going through some 1973 Autosports for a completely unrelated reason and came across an ad in the May 24th edition (page 70) for March 722/24 (not -45), advertised by John Coombs (sic) of Guildford and described as ex-Patrick Depailler. It has FT200 box, full-width nose and front rads, but the original nose and side rads were also available.

Don't know if this helps!

Michael

[Chris Townsend]

Michael

I'll have to look at the ad to refresh my memory, but I don't think that 722-24 was ever a Coombs car. It's noted on a plate on Bill Gubelman's car in 1972 British Atlantic [won the championship]. Press reports have that car sold in late 72 to Jack Patterson [sponsored by Texaco, run by Renoir Racing]. He kept the car for a number of years and Adam Ferrington noted the plate still on the car in 1973. The update sounds as though it may be the modified version of the Gubelman car, for sale perhaps because Paterson was looking at a new car. Maybe Coombs was acting as an agent. In the end he sold it late 1974 to Roy Baker, who ran it 1975, before replacing it with the ex Derek Cook 75B prototype.

If it is 722-24, I'm sure it wasn't a Coombs team car in 1972, and it can't have been the ex Coombs car for Rollinson. That was a confection of the wonderful Jock Santos in 1974 and was meant to appear while 722-24 was definitely still racing in the hands of Patterson.

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris, that Patterson chap, is that 'Jas Patterson' rather than Jack Paterson. I recall the former in F At, the latter in a S2000 Royale at one point.

[Jeremy Jackson]

It was definitely Jas Patterson who bought the Gubelmann 722. I saw the car in 1973 too, with 732/73B bodywork.

[Chris Townsend]

Apologies, got my Pattersons in a twist!
Jas - March 722-73B [Renoir International Racing]
Jack - Wimhurst in Atlantic at much the same time

Chris

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
Michael

I'll have to look at the ad to refresh my memory, but I don't think that 722-24 was ever a Coombs car. It's noted on a plate on Bill Gubelman's car in 1972 British Atlantic [won the championship]. Press reports have that car sold in late 72 to Jack Patterson [sponsored by Texaco, run by Renoir Racing]. He kept the car for a number of years and Adam Ferrington noted the plate still on the car in 1973. The update sounds as though it may be the modified version of the Gubelman car, for sale perhaps because Paterson was looking at a new car. Maybe Coombs was acting as an agent. In the end he sold it late 1974 to Roy Baker, who ran it 1975, before replacing it with the ex Derek Cook 75B prototype.

If it is 722-24, I'm sure it wasn't a Coombs team car in 1972, and it can't have been the ex Coombs car for Rollinson. That was a confection of the wonderful Jock Santos in 1974 and was meant to appear while 722-24 was definitely still racing in the hands of Patterson.

Chris

The May ad sounds as if it is a follow-up to one which ran in Autosport 8/2/73 p60 - maybe they thought they had sold the pair and then one of them fell through. The full text of the Feb ad is as follows:

March 722 F2 Cars

Two 1972 Elf-Coombe(sic) F2 cars are offered for sale as rolling chassis units, including FT200 gearbox. One front radiator car with full width nose (parts for reconversion if required) and one conventional side radiator car. Both extensively rebuilt and checked and in immaculate condition. Spare wheels and other accessories available as required. Offers to John Coombe(sic) with a Guildford address and phone number.

The May ad reads as follows:

March 722/24

Ex-Patrick Depailler rolling chassis and FT200 gearbox with full-width nose and front radiators. Original nose and side radiators available. Fitted with 10s and 14s. Assorted spares also available. Offers please. John Coombs on a Guildford number.

So it sounds to me as if they sold the car with the conventional nose but still had the full-width nose car available. The ad is very clear about the car being ex-Depailler and 722/24, so I'm not sure where this leaves us! Perhaps the ex-Depailler bit is right but the chassis number quoted is incorrect. Don't know if ads were taken down on the phone or scrawled in handwriting but it could have been another number that sounded similar, e.g. 34 or 44 even? Any Coombs cars of those numbers?

Cheers

Michael

[Chris Townsend]

The Coombs cars in 1972 seem to be:

Chassis 4: Used by Jabouille, sold to Ron Courtney in N.Ireland in 1973

Chassis 15: Used by Adrian Wilkins. Don't know where this went

Chassis 45: Used by Depaillier.

These numbers are given by F1R but are also noted in both Autosport and Motoring News. [1971 is one year where I've double checked every race in F1R against contemporary records] However, no one gives numbers at every race and there might well have been another Coombs car

Given that we know 24 to have been elsewhere, with continuous history, I don't think this is that car, but it could well be a misprint for another number. [It could even be a misprint for 4 which would be the easy solution] We don't know who had 722s 20 - 29 except for 20 [Keeler]; 23 [Folland]; 24 [Gubelmann]; 28 [Shell Arnold] and 29 [Calvert]

Chris

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
The Coombs cars in 1972 seem to be:

Chassis 4: Used by Jabouille, sold to Ron Courtney in N.Ireland in 1973

Chassis 15: Used by Adrian Wilkins. Don't know where this went

Chassis 45: Used by Depaillier.

These numbers are given by F1R but are also noted in both Autosport and Motoring News. [1971 is one year where I've double checked every race in F1R against contemporary records] However, no one gives numbers at every race and there might well have been another Coombs car

Given that we know 24 to have been elsewhere, with continuous history, I don't think this is that car, but it could well be a misprint for another number. [It could even be a misprint for 4 which would be the easy solution] We don't know who had 722s 20 - 29 except for 20 [Keeler]; 23 [Folland]; 24 [Gubelmann]; 28 [Shell Arnold] and 29 [Calvert]

Chris

Chris

Well, we know it is, according to the ad, ex-Depailler, so that would point to 772-45. Don't know quite how that gets transposed to -24 but there you go, I agree it is unlikely to be -24 given what you have said. Do you have pictures or anecdotal evidence of the Ron Courtney car, e.g. did it have side rads and original nose or front rads with full-width nose? Also, any approx date when he bought the car, as there was quite a time lag between the two ads?

Do you know where -45 ended up and was this a front-rad car as described in the ad?

Cheers

Michael

[Chris Townsend]

Michael

What I was thinking was that Coombs might have had a fourth car, number never noted in period, from the range of chassis where we don't know the original owner, [for example chassis 25] and that Depaillier might have driven this in addition to 45, which seems to have been the last 722 built. It appears first at Rouen 30.6.72 along with Williamson's 722-41, which we have confirmed as a chassis no, from other sources. Just a thought that the Coombs car might have been 722-42 [which then gives 24 as an easy misprint!]

The next reference I have for "45" is that an ex Depaillier 722 is being rebuilt for Alan Rollinson to run F.Atlantic in 1974. There is no chassis number attached to the report, and by that time the car would have been to 74B spec I guess, with full width nose, but side rads.
Rollinson is entered in a 'March' at Oulton, 5.5.74 but DNA
Qualifies 20th at Silverstone 12.5.74 where the car is described is 'ex Coombs/Depaillier', result not known
I don't have any other record of the car appearing with Rollinson, nor anything which might be that car in the hands of another driver.
[However, I am somewhat shy of programmes and race result sheets for mid season 74, so he may have carried on for a while. If someone out there has the British GP programme for 74 they could tell us whether or not he at least entered the Atlantic support race.] Some photos from Atlantic would also be great, I can scan and return!

Chris

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
Michael

What I was thinking was that Coombs might have had a fourth car, number never noted in period, from the range of chassis where we don't know the original owner, [for example chassis 25] and that Depaillier might have driven this in addition to 45, which seems to have been the last 722 built. It appears first at Rouen 30.6.72 along with Williamson's 722-41, which we have confirmed as a chassis no, from other sources. Just a thought that the Coombs car might have been 722-42 [which then gives 24 as an easy misprint!]

The next reference I have for "45" is that an ex Depaillier 722 is being rebuilt for Alan Rollinson to run F.Atlantic in 1974. There is no chassis number attached to the report, and by that time the car would have been to 74B spec I guess, with full width nose, but side rads.
Rollinson is entered in a 'March' at Oulton, 5.5.74 but DNA
Qualifies 20th at Silverstone 12.5.74 where the car is described is 'ex Coombs/Depaillier', result not known
I don't have any other record of the car appearing with Rollinson, nor anything which might be that car in the hands of another driver.
[However, I am somewhat shy of programmes and race result sheets for mid season 74, so he may have carried on for a while. If someone out there has the British GP programme for 74 they could tell us whether or not he at least entered the Atlantic support race.] Some photos from Atlantic would also be great, I can scan and return!

Chris

I hear what you are saying - it is possible that it could be something like 722-42.

Did you have a date for when Ron Courtney bought his car maybe that was driven at some point by Depailler too? 722-4 to 722-24 is an easy typo too...

Is John Coombs still around? ISTR he lives in Monaco, doesn't he own a D-type that ran there in the historics a few years ago? Anybody with any contact details perchance?!

Michael

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

I agree it is odd, and have been puzzling over it since Adam published that information.
The U1 suffix on the plate simply means [I think] that it is a hors series development model. [There were often two of these, U1 and U2 for any works build run] One of Musetti's cars may have been 742-U1, but I'm beginning to think he just had a 742 tub and the actual plates, which probably were not attached to the cars, were for two far earlier models.

British teams often ended up with the U cars because they were cheap ways of getting a new car, since the works had already had considerable mileage out of them. [Both the kosher March 75Bs that appear in Britain, for example, are U cars - Derek Cook and Ray Mallock]

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Dan
Mallock began with 742-12 in 1975, ex Jacques Coulon
However, when everyone managed to hit poor Peter Williams in the Thruxton chicane in the F2 race it didn't do the car much good.
A new car was built up around 75B-U1 though whether or not it kept the 742-12 plate for carnet purposes is a moot point.
There is actually a letter in Autosport from one of Mallock's helpers explaining this situation later in 75, because the car is mis-identified.

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

For information:

March 772P-U2 is currently in the hands of Jonathan Varley and is fitted with a 1.6 BDA. Jonathan continues to sprint and hillclimb the car.
Its previous owner was Alan Newton who had fitted a couple of different engine choices. Initially Alan ran it with the Formula Two 6 cylinder Abarth two litre unit. This was then replaced with a 3.5 litre Cosworth DFR. Before he sold the car as a roller to Jonathan.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

The Coombs cars in 1972 seem to be:

Chassis 4: Used by Jabouille, sold to Ron Courtney in N.Ireland in 1973

Chris

He didn't hang on to it for long then, did he, as I am looking at a copy of an ad for the car in the Aug 9th 1973 edition of Autosport? Interestingly, it is described in Courtney's ad as being ex-Francois Cevert and the pic of the car shown is of Cevert at Thruxton 1972, car no 44.

Just one other thought re 722s: I know that a 722 tub was used as the basis for Mike Beuttler's 721G F1 car, do you know which one, or was it just a spare, un-numbered tub? Same question, I guess, for the cars raced later in 1972 by Peterson and Lauda...

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Michael Oliver

Just one other thought re 722s: I know that a 722 tub was used as the basis for Mike Beuttler's 721G F1 car, do you know which one, or was it just a spare, un-numbered tub? Same question, I guess, for the cars raced later in 1972 by Peterson and Lauda...

And the Formula 5000 725 too.

Allen

[Michael Oliver]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Michael

What I was thinking was that Coombs might have had a fourth car, number never noted in period, from the range of chassis where we don't know the original owner, [for example chassis 25] and that Depaillier might have driven this in addition to 45, which seems to have been the last 722 built. It appears first at Rouen 30.6.72 along with Williamson's 722-41, which we have confirmed as a chassis no, from other sources. Just a thought that the Coombs car might have been 722-42 [which then gives 24 as an easy misprint!]

The next reference I have for "45" is that an ex Depaillier 722 is being rebuilt for Alan Rollinson to run F.Atlantic in 1974. There is no chassis number attached to the report, and by that time the car would have been to 74B spec I guess, with full width nose, but side rads.
Rollinson is entered in a 'March' at Oulton, 5.5.74 but DNA
Qualifies 20th at Silverstone 12.5.74 where the car is described is 'ex Coombs/Depaillier', result not known
I don't have any other record of the car appearing with Rollinson, nor anything which might be that car in the hands of another driver.
[However, I am somewhat shy of programmes and race result sheets for mid season 74, so he may have carried on for a while. If someone out there has the British GP programme for 74 they could tell us whether or not he at least entered the Atlantic support race.] Some photos from Atlantic would also be great, I can scan and return!

Chris

Hi Chris

I'm sure you've already got this but just in case:

722/41 was advertised by David Lambe AS 18/10/73 p57 as ex-Williamson/Patsy McGarrity.

On facing page (e.g. 56) is an ad for GRD 273 F2 car (two races from new) with a Leicester number. Would this be another ex-Williamson car, possibly being sold by Wheatcroft? I know he had a GRD initially, didn't he and then switched to a March?

On same page, Stan Mathews Racing are advertising his March 73B (only two months old) so an August 73-ish build. Again don't know if it helps!?

[jkeller]

I was in Germany last week and saw a March 732 with an odd chassis plate. The plate number is 732-084. I lifted off the roll over bar and took a look at the number stamped into the tub, it was also 732-084. The plate looks like every other March plate I've seen, the car is definatly all March and looks original.
Any idea how this car came to be?
Are there any records showing tub number 732-084?
Jim Keller

[Michael Oliver]

Originally Posted by Michael Oliver

The May ad sounds as if it is a follow-up to one which ran in Autosport 8/2/73 p60 - maybe they thought they had sold the pair and then one of them fell through. The full text of the Feb ad is as follows:

March 722 F2 Cars

Two 1972 Elf-Coombe(sic) F2 cars are offered for sale as rolling chassis units, including FT200 gearbox. One front radiator car with full width nose (parts for reconversion if required) and one conventional side radiator car. Both extensively rebuilt and checked and in immaculate condition. Spare wheels and other accessories available as required. Offers to John Coombe(sic) with a Guildford address and phone number.

The May ad reads as follows:

March 722/24

Ex-Patrick Depailler rolling chassis and FT200 gearbox with full-width nose and front radiators. Original nose and side radiators available. Fitted with 10s and 14s. Assorted spares also available. Offers please. John Coombs on a Guildford number.

So it sounds to me as if they sold the car with the conventional nose but still had the full-width nose car available. The ad is very clear about the car being ex-Depailler and 722/24, so I'm not sure where this leaves us! Perhaps the ex-Depailler bit is right but the chassis number quoted is incorrect. Don't know if ads were taken down on the phone or scrawled in handwriting but it could have been another number that sounded similar, e.g. 34 or 44 even? Any Coombs cars of those numbers?

Cheers

Michael

Chris et al

Just to note that John Coombs ran the same ad for March 722/24 in the October 25th 1973 edition of Autosport, p56. Although it was exactly the same wording, I would have thought that if the chassis number had been incorrect in the May ad, they would have changed it for the October one?

I know that you have already identified 722/24 as a car raced by Bill Gubelmann in FAtlantic. Is this perhaps a situation where one car could have had a frame number and the other a tub number, both the same? I still think something is not right here but I'm not sure what...

[Bryan Miller]

Jim,
Re your March sighting , I reckon that the plate is non original , and somebody at some time had the car and the chassis plate was missing , and found the tub number and made a new plate with the tub number as the chassis no. not knowing or caring that these two numbers never were the same , my 74B-12 is on tub 732-026 , and I am sure all the F3 cars used the same tubs as well .
If we knew the history of the car , maybe we could figure it all out.

Regards Bryan.

[allenbrown]

I thought I'd rescue these March 742 details from TNF and post them where they belong:

Originally posted by Adam F
I have some information from the March factory records :-

1974 F2 sales list
Note:- in some cases this lists the country agent (eg Trivellato for Italy) rather than the final team.

1 Japan Red
2 Japan Bright Blue
3 Obermoser White
4 Japan Red
5 Japan White
6 Japan White
7 Trivellato White
8 Trivellato Red
9 Kuwashima Black
10 Obermoser Blue
11 Obermoser White
12 Antar Red
13 Maublanc Bright Blue
14 Maublanc White (Schnitzer)
15 Trivellato Yellow
16 Maublanc White (Schnitzer)
17 Jagermeister Orange
18 ELF Black
19 B.P. (Lafitte) White
20 Trivellato Red
21 Trivellato Red
22 Trivellato Red
23 Harper White
24 B.P. White
25 Harper White
26 Trivellato White
27 Moser White/Orange
28 Jolly Club White (Ford/Holbay)
29 (no customer listed) White
30 Bang & Olufsen White/Red

Other notes (from sporadic records)
5 "reported driven by Vonlanthen at Estoril"
8 "painted orange by Scuderia del Passatore" "raced by Giancarlo Martini"
12 "raced by Jacques Coulon", "Feb 75 converted to F. Atlantic became 75B-U1"
17 "raced by Hans Stuck as Jagermeister works car"
18 "Used by Patrick Depailler to win 1974 F2 Championship", "Nov 75 sold to Maublanc"
21 "driven by Truffo at Estoril March 75"
24 "rebodied with green & yellow special body" "Raced in 1974 by Laffitte" "1975 sold to Siegrist - repainted blue & white"
26 "24 March 75 Turizio - Scuderia Vesuvio"
27 "built for Silvio Moser but never raced by him" "1975 White & gold - Loris Kessel"
28 "raced 1974 and early 1975 by Carlo Giorgio"
30 "used as spare car 1975
U1 "spare (works) team car in black & blue Elf colours" "Dec 1975 sold to David Franklin"

[allenbrown]

And also this, from TNF again:

Originally posted by starlet
For the anecdote, and if I 'm right, there was an ex works 732 s/n 10, that has been upgraded in '74 specifications for the Brian Lewis Racing, and renumbered by March in 742/10B, as the 742/10 existed already.
The car was entered for Vittorio Brambilla in 1974.

[allenbrown]

And then this, taken from http://www.carclassic.com/stock.asp?StockID=102176.

Classic Car Collection's March 732/10
Chassis 732 / 10. Great car with great history: It raced in 1973 with the former Monaco F1 winner Jean-Pierre Beltoise and won the 1974 European championship with the former F1 Racer Patrick Depailler. March 732 are almost the same as 712 and 722. In 1974 all cars were modified by factory to 742 specifications with F1 front wing, 2 side water radiators, new suspensions and brake scoops. During 1974 season, March’s where so quick that they won all races but 1. The engine is a fuel injected Ford BDG, fully restored by Richardson and showing 296 bhp on dynotester. The gearbox is the standard Hewland FT200. This car has been fully restored with no matter of costs in 1996, then sold to current owner who has completed a detailled check-up and only raced 4 times in total during 2002 season. A large service has just been completed in 2004. The clutch is 0 miles and all safety elements have 2004 labels. The engine has completed a total of 2,800 km from Richardson rebuild. This car comes with FIA papers, it is a very quick car as the previous owner, Ludovic Caron, won 5 races and 9 pole positions from 1998 to 2000. This is certainly the very best of all the March 712 / 722 / 732 / 742 to collect.

If we ignore the "misunderstanding" about it being the 1974 title winner, it is a 742 and it is ex-Depailler so it does help explain why there were so many ex-Depailler 742s around in 1975.

The chassis plate is shown on the web site and is worth a look - at least for compariso with other March chassis plates you may have seen

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

I sometimes wonder if a car entering the March workshops for a rebuild ever left bearing the chassis plate it came in with...

Chassis 18 is now in the USA, where it was used in SCCA from 1978. So ex Depaillier? The gel coat is orange... Stuck orange.

I would, incidentally be suspicious of the claims for Depaillier having used a Brian Lewis car to compete in the 1974 European championship. Sutcliffe and Brambilla use 732-10 rebuilt, used by both Jarier and Beltoise in 73. But why would Depaillier want it in 74?

Chris

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

I would, incidentally be suspicious of the claims for Depaillier having used a Brian Lewis car to compete in the 1974 European championship.

'Suspicious' is a very polite word. I refered to it as a 'misunderstanding'. The spell-checker objects to all the better words, like the one that rhymes with rowlocks. Maybe a smilie says it best:

Allen