Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 Sep 2017, 21:44 (Ref:3764290)   #26
TrapezeArtist
Veteran
 
TrapezeArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
England
Posts: 1,872
TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan View Post
My solution would be a secondary points structure.

Firstly lets start with a reasonable number of bits to begin with for the season...lets face it 10 or 12 are built per car as spares for the 4 that are allowed, plus any new development bits as the season goes on.

Each race where a constructor uses 1 additional part they are racing for a revised constructors points list of 2 points less than normal scored and have to finish in the top 9 to score points.

1st: 23pts, 2nd: 16pts, 3rd: 13pts, 4th: 10pts, 5th: 8pts, 6th: 6pts, 7th: 4pts, 8th: 2pts and 9th 1pt.

If 2 or more parts are used then a points list of 4 points less than normal and have to finish in the top 8

1st: 21pts, 2nd: 16pts, 3rd: 11pts, 4th: 8pts, 5th: 6pts, 6th: 4pts 7th: 2pts and 8th 1pt.

Drivers points would remain the same.
Yeah, that seems simple enough.
TrapezeArtist is offline  
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was.
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 01:12 (Ref:3764322)   #27
JABWOA
Veteran
 
JABWOA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
3rd star to the left
Posts: 660
JABWOA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
Forget qualifying. Line them up in Echelon in reverse points order and have the drivers sprint from a line at the exit of the last corner to get in their cars.....
Vandorne would win!
(Interesting stat from Monza - Vandorne has taken 1 kilometer of grid penalties this year (based on the 8m per grid spots)
JABWOA is offline  
__________________
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true." -Robert Wilensky
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 02:25 (Ref:3764330)   #28
F J Nedos
Veteran
 
F J Nedos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Canberra
Posts: 1,267
F J Nedos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Make every car in the grid change everything after qualifying. They all get the same grid penalty therefore their qualifying positions stand!
F J Nedos is offline  
__________________
I'm not saying "let's go and kill all the stupid people"... I'm just saying "let's remove all of the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out".
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 08:21 (Ref:3764403)   #29
marcel82
Veteran
 
marcel82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
European Union
Beersel, Belgium
Posts: 1,005
marcel82 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nielsen View Post
It has already changed again, 25 place penalty for Vandoorne
which basically meant that Sainz, who got a 10 place penalty, started where he qualified.
But I do believe the situation is being caused by suppliers s****ing all over the rules, and not delivering on the mileage required.
marcel82 is offline  
__________________
Heaven is a checkered flag.
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 14:50 (Ref:3764451)   #30
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan View Post
My solution would be a secondary points structure.
I have put some thought into this over the past few days and I have an idea that is somewhat similar to what ScotsBrutesFan proposes.

I believe some type of system that limits the number of power unit components used over the course of the season needs to remain. We should not return to the era of qualifying specials and engines that only last one session or race weekend. With restrictions comes a penalty system, with the current penalty system being the problem.

I would do three things...

1. Increase the allocation of components for the span of the remainder of this engine formula. This specification is complex and while somewhat mature, clearly is still a problem for multiple manufactures. Increased allocation should help push problems like this until later in the season. Right now we are seeing a large number of penalties just a bit past half way.

2. Change the balance for component allocations. Roughly speaking it seems that the ICE is relatively stable while the ERS-H components have lower reliability. So I would allow for a larger allocation for those that are failing left and right now. This allocation may change (reduction) year by year as we approach the end of this specification and manufactures technology matures. (To be honest, I haven't looked into the current allocations and this suggestion may already be in place.)

3. Move from a grid penalty to reduction of points scored system. Similar to what ScotsBrutesFan proposes above, I would reduce any points scored during the race in which extra components are used. However my solution is both simpler and more drastic. If at least one component is used beyond allocation, then points would be cut in half. I think this will be simpler for fans to understand and with less outrage as there are no penalties to stack up to large numbers as component swaps are added up. There is no formula to define the size of the penalty, but rather a simple trigger for the single penalty. Which points would be cut? Constructor, driver or both? Most conversations here talk to it being constructor points only and leaving driver points as is. At the moment, I am leaning toward the cut happening for both (see below on why). But I am open to it just being constructor points and leaving driver points alone. Just to be clear... this impact points "scored" in the race in which components are changed. So no removing if prior won points and no team ending up with negative points.

What are the problems with this proposal? First, the team will take a full hit as soon as the first component needs to be swapped. So they will clearly take advantage and replace all components in the engine (i.e. a completely new power unit). That is fine. My concept is to focus on both delaying when the penalty happens, and for a simple solution when/if it does happen.

Second, if both constructor and driver points are not cut, I am concerned about teams gaming the system and it having unexpected impacts on (or rather manipulation of) the driver championship. If unintended strategic loophole come in to play which alter the shape of the drivers championship, then fans will be very upset. It would be some type of scenario in which a team may take the hit on the constructor championship just to ensure a better result in the driver championship. This will be seen as unfair to drivers.

If analysis showed that these scenarios don't exists, or are rare edge cases, then maybe only the constructor points is cut in half and the driver points is left alone.

Third, we will see half points being awarded. But that is not without precedent.

Lastly, not a problem with the proposal above, but... existing rules that impose grid penalties for changes between race and qualifying, etc. or rules to prevent "banking" of power units by swapping multiple within a race weekend would remain unchanged.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 15:33 (Ref:3764460)   #31
ScotsBrutesFan
Race Official
Veteran
 
ScotsBrutesFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Scotland
West Lothian
Posts: 5,695
ScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Richard, my reason for going with a two stage option was that, and I should perhaps have given more prominence to rather than just the final line, I would be looking to find a way to include most technical "infringements" including extra gear boxes into the points penalty system.

---

I had thought of just going with half points with the possibility of teams ending up with a season total that included a half point at the end. I have no issue with that, it has happened in the past but those have come about from the rare situation whether has been a race stoppage after the first 2 laps and before reaching 75% distance, that extends beyond the maximum 4 hour event window.

As half points are already awarded and if there are are half constructors points on top of that, do we want teams fighting for constructors places and the large financial returns that one place can bring over another in quarter points. ... It's bad enough when it's just a single point and a half point would be worse even worse.

Having said all that, if it was just a single stage points reduction I'd offer something similar to the second of my points lists, so the penalty is not just reduced points but having to get into the top 8 to receive them.
ScotsBrutesFan is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 16:06 (Ref:3764468)   #32
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,467
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Richard, wouldn't your first point be rather unfair on those teams that have PUs that are far more reliable. I would suggest that Mercedes and Ferrari have invested huge sums to produce more durable elements, and they and the teams that they supply benefit from that.

To change the rules to allow more components is, in reality, a retrospective punishment for spending money on their PUs. And especially in the case of Mercedes for having damn good engineers in their road vehicle divisions who brought their talents to bear on the project years ahead of all the other engine providers.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 16:39 (Ref:3764478)   #33
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I'd rather have a limited of number of parts per race, than one part for x number of races. That way it's easier for everyone, the teams and the fans to understand
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 17:28 (Ref:3764494)   #34
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
Richard, wouldn't your first point be rather unfair on those teams that have PUs that are far more reliable. I would suggest that Mercedes and Ferrari have invested huge sums to produce more durable elements, and they and the teams that they supply benefit from that.

To change the rules to allow more components is, in reality, a retrospective punishment for spending money on their PUs. And especially in the case of Mercedes for having damn good engineers in their road vehicle divisions who brought their talents to bear on the project years ahead of all the other engine providers.
Is it unfair? Yes. But the situation is what it is and everyone says the status quo is unacceptable. If you adjust rules, there will be winners and losers.

Regardless, I think my third component is the foundation. The first two can be negotiated to acceptable levels, or just not implemented if adjustments are deemed untenable by someone like a Mercedes.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 17:37 (Ref:3764495)   #35
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan View Post
Richard, my reason for going with a two stage option was that, and I should perhaps have given more prominence to rather than just the final line, I would be looking to find a way to include most technical "infringements" including extra gear boxes into the points penalty system.

---

I had thought of just going with half points with the possibility of teams ending up with a season total that included a half point at the end. I have no issue with that, it has happened in the past but those have come about from the rare situation whether has been a race stoppage after the first 2 laps and before reaching 75% distance, that extends beyond the maximum 4 hour event window.

As half points are already awarded and if there are are half constructors points on top of that, do we want teams fighting for constructors places and the large financial returns that one place can bring over another in quarter points. ... It's bad enough when it's just a single point and a half point would be worse even worse.

Having said all that, if it was just a single stage points reduction I'd offer something similar to the second of my points lists, so the penalty is not just reduced points but having to get into the top 8 to receive them.
Kudos to you for suggesting a solution. Even in the mainstream media, it seems to be mostly complaints and little in the way of suggested solutions. If the solution was obvious, they would have implemented it by now.

Your solution has merit. I was just trying to focus on simplicity because the media and the fans already get wound up and misrepresent the current solution. Just look at the thread title.

Regarding half, or even quart point. Yes people will complain if someone gets beat by a quarter point. They are all arbitrary numbers anyhow. But I guess getting beat 1125 vs 1100 feels better than 11.25 vs 11.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 17:40 (Ref:3764496)   #36
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I'd rather have a limited of number of parts per race, than one part for x number of races. That way it's easier for everyone, the teams and the fans to understand
To be honest, I can see a slight difference between your two scenarios, but not much? And that assumes I understand your intent, which I doubt I do. Can you clarify?

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 4 Sep 2017, 22:11 (Ref:3764561)   #37
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

I'd rather see no artificial tinkering with the race equipment! (and don't raise the spectre of scrutineering...all that can be controlled)

A time penalty ON THE DAY or a financial penalty/exclusion from results/exclusion from next meeting post race...blown an engine? Stick another in during the race and get back out there for some fan and advertising exposure and "team practice laps"!
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Old 5 Sep 2017, 03:24 (Ref:3764627)   #38
JABWOA
Veteran
 
JABWOA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
3rd star to the left
Posts: 660
JABWOA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
To be honest, I can see a slight difference between your two scenarios, but not much? And that assumes I understand your intent, which I doubt I do. Can you clarify?

Richard
I read this as each car should have limited amount of items each race - ie, 4 wheels, 1 cockpit, 1 front wing, 1 back wing and 1 power unit. Damage it, day is done or fight on as is.

Kudos to those in the graphics department for designing the spider web that shows each of the 5 components of the current Power supply system and how many each driver has used. But it's not friendly to the casuals.

Costs needs to be controlled and short of being a completely spec series with Ferrari chassis, williams gearbox, McLaren ECU and Merc motor..., a fairer system needs to be designed while not penalising those who are better too much. (Is was mooted last year to freeze the Merc engine to allow other to catch up - if that did happen then this year would have been a Ferrari walk over.)
JABWOA is offline  
__________________
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true." -Robert Wilensky
Quote
Old 5 Sep 2017, 14:12 (Ref:3764731)   #39
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JABWOA View Post
I read this as each car should have limited amount of items each race - ie, 4 wheels, 1 cockpit, 1 front wing, 1 back wing and 1 power unit. Damage it, day is done or fight on as is.
I think I read somewhere that this is how NASCAR does it with their engines. Not to downplay NASCAR technology, that can working in a series that effectively has tightly controlled technology that generates solutions that are generally reliable, well understood and in the grand scheme of things... cheap (lets say ~$80k per engine). I have read this works out to ~$3M per season (30+ races). Which is clearly doable. And some smaller teams will run the same engine for more than one or two races.

Lets look at current F1 numbers...

Some quick Google help says teams may be spending ~$8 million to lease what is supposed to be four engines per season. That comes to $2M per engine. With 20 races per F1 season, that is ~$40M just in engines alone.

I know these numbers are not accurate. First, who knows how accurate my Google searches are, but also because part of the larger lease fee is support costs and other overhead, etc. which means the actual per engine cost is lower. Also in both NASCAR and F1, there are additional engines that would be used for testing, etc. So with a fixed per season cost, that also drives down the per engine costs.

But in general it should illustrate that F1 can't scale up the current engines to be "one race" engines because the engines are so expensive. Now, maybe they can be made to cost less if the longevity is not built in. But frankly the manufactures have already engineered in the longevity and it would take new R&D to try to make them cheaper and you know that what would happen is it would be a race to extract performance at the cost of reliability and not a race to drive down the cost by keeping the same performance. So would the cost drop much? For the current spec, I suspect not.

What can potentially happen is that lets say the rules do allow for one engine per weekend. I expect the manufacturers would want cost reductions baked into a revised engine spec because not only could their customers not afford the engines, they also wouldn't want to be spending that much money themselves.

Basically the above could work if there was a drastic rework of the engine spec to create VERY simple engines. And that is not a bad thing. Question is... would current manufactures continue to be interested in providing low tech simple engines? They may complain, but in reality, they probably would be OK with it.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 5 Sep 2017, 16:06 (Ref:3764749)   #40
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,716
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
is the problem really the penalty format or function of modern F1?

rather, havent we seen this in the past few seasons now (more so as the calendar increases in size)?

obviously Honda get a lot of penalties and frankly they deserve them but the deeper problem, imo, is that we are approaching the part of the season where the constructors table is pretty much set so teams have shifted focus and resources over to next year.

so now you have a case where RB, for example, will take strategic penalties in the hopes of squeezing out a lucky win somewhere else (a morale and PR boost) and Renault overall my start trying some new things and/or push the envelope to get a lead on next year.

anyways, maybe im being weird but i would say more penalties are needed....mid to late season strategic engine changes and a points structure that tends to reward resource allocation to the next season does a disservice to those who have devoted money and time to watch these races and is the bigger problem imo.

i get that resources are limited and these are smart and necessary strategic and financial moves and in the past they made sense but now as the calendar is growing (they want what 25 races?)...its just that i can live with the penalties more then i can live with the last third of the season looking more and more like a glorified test.

teams need to be compelled to put their best foot forward for each event...like others though, i dont have the foggiest on how to accomplish that.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 5 Sep 2017, 23:27 (Ref:3764845)   #41
JABWOA
Veteran
 
JABWOA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
3rd star to the left
Posts: 660
JABWOA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
teams need to be compelled to put their best foot forward for each event...like others though, i dont have the foggiest on how to accomplish that.
Good point -which is why I believe points for fastest lap needs to come back.
(Remember all the times Webber would go hotlapping (to take stats away from Seb ) when he wasn't able to get a decent result.
JABWOA is offline  
__________________
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true." -Robert Wilensky
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 14:24 (Ref:3764949)   #42
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,525
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I've always been a firm believer in points for fastest lap.
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 14:31 (Ref:3764951)   #43
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,290
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
I've always been a firm believer in points for fastest lap.
During the commentary for Monza, it was referred to when Alonso asked what the fastest lap was.
It was suggested that all that would happen is two/three laps from home all drivers outside the points would just pit for a fresh set of boots.

Not sure how this could be prevented?
crmalcolm is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 15:01 (Ref:3764961)   #44
ASCII Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I doubt all drivers outside the points would be able to get the fastest lap even with a fresh set, unless its one of the usual front runners on a very bad day.
ASCII Man is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 18:21 (Ref:3765004)   #45
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,525
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
During the commentary for Monza, it was referred to when Alonso asked what the fastest lap was.
It was suggested that all that would happen is two/three laps from home all drivers outside the points would just pit for a fresh set of boots.

Not sure how this could be prevented?
I'm not convinced it ought to be!
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 18:30 (Ref:3765009)   #46
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,290
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
I'm not convinced it ought to be!
I suppose some of the votes for rating the race might bump up a little if we saw 7-8 drivers pit with 5 laps to go and chase a point.

It must be better than watching one driver have a slim chance of overtaking to take the last point.

My understanding is that blue flags are used because a faster car is behind? Would be interesting to see Vettel or Hamilton blue flagged because Palmer or Grosjean is on a flyer!
crmalcolm is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 18:37 (Ref:3765012)   #47
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,525
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Now that could well be fun!
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2017, 19:07 (Ref:3765024)   #48
djinvicta
Veteran
 
djinvicta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Wales
Mojacar Southern Spain
Posts: 2,303
djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!
I have said this so many times in the past. Championship point for fastest lap during the race. Wake up F1..
djinvicta is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2017, 03:11 (Ref:3765101)   #49
JABWOA
Veteran
 
JABWOA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
3rd star to the left
Posts: 660
JABWOA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Blues are still only for lapping (regardless of speed of the lapped) so a fastest lap seeking driver would need to navigate around those still racing for champ points.

Hence the race enjoyment factor would be watching these missiles maneuvering around the leaders (or picking the right spot to time their run.)

3/4 of the field could have a decent stab at fastest lap with low fuel and super duper soft tyre and a full KERS supply. (compare race laps with qual laps)

Or make fastest lap worth team prize money instead of points - that's what the minnows really want.
JABWOA is offline  
__________________
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true." -Robert Wilensky
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2017, 08:14 (Ref:3765137)   #50
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,647
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
I really like this ides, as others have said it would add excitement to the end of every race. There would also be additional strategy (or at least strategic thinking) for the teams; Picking the optimal moment to bring the car in to change to new tyres, get the car out in time to get them up to perfect temperature, and get the car into sufficient free air on the track to run unimpeded and get the fast lap time. Brilliant!
Can we have this introduced in time for Singapore please?
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Rules] Hamilton 5 Place Penalty? Peter Mallett Formula One 55 17 Apr 2012 00:49
10 place penalty for Hamilton and Rosberg alonso11 Formula One 299 24 Jun 2008 02:06
Five place penalty for Kovalainen Down F0rce Formula One 107 23 Jun 2008 16:42
Vettel gets 5 place penalty Marbot Formula One 13 19 May 2008 20:11
Massa first to be hit with '10 place penalty' following De la Rosa Incident Damon Formula One 3 17 Sep 2002 11:41


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.