[LM24] Jaguar evaluating LMP1 programme

[JAG]

Privateer teams did finish 1-2 at Sebring, but aside from that, things have been pretty dismal for privateers in P1 when going up against the might of Audi and Peugeot.

Privateers will rarely challenge manufactuers, even with the same machinery.

Group C was unsustainable without manufactuers, Spice were the only chassis constructor, and the engine side was equally limited. Today Lola, ORECA, Zytek and more produce great chassis, with multiple engine suppliers, the infrastructure for prototype racing is far more developed.

[AGD]

I don't know. The privateer options today certainly aren't as competitive as the Porsches that were available for purchase for many, many years. Obviously, some of those privateer Porsches won overall. I guess you could even look at the Rondeau and a few others. 1995 was a great year for the smaller teams. Some of the privateers in the mid-00s had some success against the Audis, although the rule differences and the fact that the Audis were a bit aged and privateer entries themselves had to be factored.

In comparison, the aged and vastly underdeveloped privateer options available today aren't as good as some privateer options in the past, but maybe it is just a case that the privateers in the past had more money. A privateer team running an ARX-01e would probably do some serious damage against other privateer teams at the moment, but nobody seems to have the funds or the desire to run one.

Anyway, I'm not sure how we got to this topic, but I agree that this is a great time to be a sports car fan. However, if you are a fan of privateers and customer/small team cars, this period has not been very memorable. Unlike others, however, I don't think it is caused by petrol-diesel equivalence rules.

[JAG]

If factory competition is weak, it goes without saying privateers will fair better.

I dare say, however, fans remember privateers who compete in strong era's, moreso than those who have better results in poorer times.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

I dare say, however, fans remember privateers who compete in strong era's, moreso than those who have better results in poorer times.

Maybe if they do well like Joest and others did back in the day, but not if the privateers are just field fillers in a race dominated by strong factory efforts. For example, Pescarolo will be remembered far more for their mid-00 efforts (particularly 2005) than for something like this year even though some may consider those to be weak years. Certainly that era of Pescarolo and other privateers who competed in weaker fields like the 1995 McLarens, Courages, WRs, etc. will be remembered more than, say, Rebellion this year even though Rebellion was the "best of the rest" in a year with lots of competition. Maybe I am wrong about that, but honestly I already remember little about Rebellion's efforts this year at Le Mans aside from JCB's crash!

[Alfa Fan]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Most of the wins were with a straight six. The didn't use F-Type in the '80s, so they didn't carry on where they left off last time. They did use a road car engine, so that is a start.

To be consistent with previous serious bids they need to
1. Use a road derived engine.
2. Have new nomenclature.
3. Win.

V12s all through the XJR8-14 days!!

[CTD]

Am i the only one who have spotted this?:
http://endurance-info.com/version2/a...ance-7702.html

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by CTD

Am i the only one who have spotted this?:
http://endurance-info.com/version2/a...ance-7702.html

Another stirling effort by Autosport, amazing what actually calling the company itself can do. Thanks to endurance info, sad to hear though.

What worries me is what Ken McConomy says at the bottom, how long can they drag on and spend money on that joke of a program they currently have now?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Another stirling effort by Autosport, amazing what actually calling the company itself can do. Thanks to endurance info, sad to hear though.

What worries me is what Ken McConomy says at the bottom, how long can they drag on and spend money on that joke of a program they currently have now?

You can support a program, by just "giving support" of the name. No money attached. This is could be the case of the GTE project.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Another stirling effort by Autosport, amazing what actually calling the company itself can do. Thanks to endurance info, sad to hear though.

What worries me is what Ken McConomy says at the bottom, how long can they drag on and spend money on that joke of a program they currently have now?

So just because someone from within the company denies an announcement that hasn't been made yet the whole thing is off? I don't think so.

This is just a classic example of a story being broken way before the manufacturer is ready to go public. I can't imagine they are happy. Some would call that excellent journalism. It's a scoop.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Alfa Fan

V12s all through the XJR8-14 days!!

Apart from the 10 and 11 with the metro engine and the 14 with the Ford HB.

Anyway my point was that the V12 was the current road engine. So they should use a V8. Or a V6 diesel, or a 4cylinder diesel!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Simmi

So just because someone from within the company denies an announcement that hasn't been made yet the whole thing is off? I don't think so.

This is just a classic example of a story being broken way before the manufacturer is ready to go public. I can't imagine they are happy. Some would call that excellent journalism. It's a scoop.

Just because it is written in Autosport doesn't mean it is true.

Scoop it may be, but it is like cry wolf. If everything they wrote was a true scoop then we'd have a lot more cars to talk about and Louise would be driving for three teams next year.

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Wirth's P1 coupe would be an easy way out...And much much more high profile than Aston martin snapping a V12 in a lola Chassis...Wirth has winning experience...They've built good cars(P2) and bad cars(arx-02a). And they've use the wide P1 fronts.....It's sound like a dream partnership for any manufacturer.....

The 02a a bad car? Didn't it sit on pole in it's very first race at Sebring vs Audi and Peugeot? Clearly it was not a match for the diesels in a race, the combination of tires not designed for front end work and a rather smallish 4.0L powerplant created two heavy anchors. But slap a Judd 5.5L and tires like those that Michelin created this year for Audi and Peugeot...and who knows what kind of car the 02a might have been? Like a great racehorse stud, the reputation of the car may rest in it's progeny. The winner of almost every race this year(and every podium step as well?)has depended upon the Large Front Tire tech that the 02a pioneered. And...it got Scott Sharp out of the Highcroft and into a Green Ferrari...Clearly the 02a has abilities beyond it's race pace.
dh

[AGD]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Another stirling effort by Autosport, amazing what actually calling the company itself can do. Thanks to endurance info, sad to hear though.

I don't think the comments in EI really mean anything. This is obviously not an official done deal. 2014 is a long ways off and I don't see the point of going public at this point when a lot of things can change. Things may be dependent on luring a major sponsor.

It's kind of like the Toyota rumors. The interest is there to consider going to Le Mans, but will it get done? We'll see.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by CTD

You can support a program, by just "giving support" of the name. No money attached. This is could be the case of the GTE project.

Well unless RSR/Rocketsports is a really horrible team, then judging by their results that seems to be the case now.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

The 02a a bad car? Didn't it sit on pole in it's very first race at Sebring vs Audi and Peugeot? Clearly it was not a match for the diesels in a race, the combination of tires not designed for front end work and a rather smallish 4.0L powerplant created two heavy anchors. But slap a Judd 5.5L and tires like those that Michelin created this year for Audi and Peugeot...and who knows what kind of car the 02a might have been? Like a great racehorse stud, the reputation of the car may rest in it's progeny. The winner of almost every race this year(and every podium step as well?)has depended upon the Large Front Tire tech that the 02a pioneered. And...it got Scott Sharp out of the Highcroft and into a Green Ferrari...Clearly the 02a has abilities beyond it's race pace.
dh

Hard to say whether the 02a was a bad car, but I think we can conclude it wasn't a good package. That pole is a bit of an odd event in my opinion. We wouldn't know whether the chassis was good, unless we put a different engine in it. Interesting to note though, Audi has taken some of the principles in this design and incorporated them in the R18, so there must have been some good.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AGD

I don't think the comments in EI really mean anything. This is obviously not an official done deal. 2014 is a long ways off and I don't see the point of going public at this point when a lot of things can change. Things may be dependent on luring a major sponsor.

It's kind of like the Toyota rumors. The interest is there to consider going to Le Mans, but will it get done? We'll see.

The article points out a new management team is in place, Carl-Peter Forster, formally of BMW and GM, is leading the P1 push, and a decision to go ahead has been taken in principle.

Jaguar say, 'Our only current motorsport commitment is in the ALMS with Jaguar RSR Racing, but we are monitoring developments in motorsport around the world.'

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

The 02a a bad car? Didn't it sit on pole in it's very first race at Sebring vs Audi and Peugeot? Clearly it was not a match for the diesels in a race, the combination of tires not designed for front end work and a rather smallish 4.0L powerplant created two heavy anchors. But slap a Judd 5.5L and tires like those that Michelin created this year for Audi and Peugeot...and who knows what kind of car the 02a might have been? Like a great racehorse stud, the reputation of the car may rest in it's progeny. The winner of almost every race this year(and every podium step as well?)has depended upon the Large Front Tire tech that the 02a pioneered. And...it got Scott Sharp out of the Highcroft and into a Green Ferrari...Clearly the 02a has abilities beyond it's race pace.
dh

but see theres the problem....... the acura was dessigned around that small underpowered V8 and didnt get the correct tires.....what you say about the judd doesnt really apply because then we can basically say no LMP car ever in history was bad....We'd just say, like you, just slap a Peugeot V12 in the back and it will go like thump! im looking at the Acura for what it was.....not what it could have been

they never went after michelin to get proper front tires and the tires werent getting warm...it was a very draggy car....and underpowered. The technology used in the car was very basic. Compared to Audi and Peugeot who wouldnt dare take the engine cover off and have a tech session.

[jaguarista]

Originally Posted by JAG

The article points out a new management team is in place, Carl-Peter Forster, formally of BMW and GM, is leading the P1 push, and a decision to go ahead has been taken in principle.

Jaguar say, 'Our only current motorsport commitment is in the ALMS with Jaguar RSR Racing, but we are monitoring developments in motorsport around the world.'

In practice ... if RSR team does not improve and get results, will focus on a return official in LMP1?

[JAG]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110714/ALMS/110719941

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110714/ALMS/110719941

seconded to Autoweek:

Hello Nick,

Any chance any Wirth Research involvement with the announced Jaguar intention to return to Le Mans?

Mike

Not that I am aware of!


Best wishes

Nick Wirth FREng CEng FIMechE
President
Wirth Research

[JAG]

Autoweek's article is a slight variation on Autsport's report.

The Autosport article has a quote from Simon Crompton of Wirth -

"We are not talking to Jaguar at the moment, not that we wouldn't want to - it would be a great fit for us." "We've had a number of approaches from manufactuers because they've seen what we did with the ARX-01e at Sebring and know that a new coupe would be quicker."

[Tim the Grey]

Jag V8? What is Max Capacity now for a petrol? I doubt they could run with a 5 litre now, could they? I think the V6 3.0 diesel could be a base to work from though.
As it already features 'parallel sequential Turbocharging'... AND it would be fabulous marketing to take Audi's King Diesel LM crown.

[Audi Racer]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/18/j...with-new-lmp1/.

not sure if this is new or an old thing.

[TF110]

Rehashed autosport article, Autoblog are pretty slow to get the motorsport news.

[JAG]

Though Nick Wirth’s involvement remains uncertain, the rest of the Jaguar LMP story is pretty solid, including the involvement of John Piper, (XJR 14 and Reynard) along with Rod Benoist and Jerry Pyman, both former TWR Jaguar hands. This is a project headed for the WEC – likely not before 2013. The back story here is that this project exists in substantial part because Coventry is fed up with the failed ALMS GT program, which is on “contract life-support,” headed for the dustbin as soon as that deal expires, reportedly after the 2012 season.

http://murphythebear.com/blog/index....ut-what-is-it/