[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Had hopes of a Williams resurgence in 2014, even though they had signed that useless Massa. Was hoping Bottas was going to be the next Hakkinen. But they both were useless and let the team down. And the team went backwards from there on.

Harsh! I would have said Bottas and Massa did a pretty good job with what they had. It seemed that the car worked well at some circuits but at others it was nowhere - I'd have said the issues were more car than driver.

But I'll agree with the consensus that the Williams lineup for 2018 looks like it's going to be pretty poor.

Originally Posted by cds_uk

I think Kyvat could be a sensation at Williams, surely nobody can doubt his pace, imagine what an arm around the shoulder could do rather than having Marko chipping away at his confidence.

Good luck with that - Williams has not historically been an 'arm around the shoulder' team. Otherwise Frentzen may have gone better there.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Had hopes of a Williams resurgence in 2014, even though they had signed that useless Massa. Was hoping Bottas was going to be the next Hakkinen. But they both were useless and let the team down. And the team went backwards from there on.

Do you genuinely feel that they let the team down?

I get the impression it was more that the team let them down by not providing a consistently competitive car. Both of them have proven elsewhere that they are/were race winners with potential for WDC.

I don't imagine being 'useless' in a Williams is likely to earn a seat in a Merc?

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

That logic doesn't stop people calling for Rosenqvist

It's not quite the same. Rosenqvist hasn't had the backing but has delivered in everything he's been in.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Graz

It's not quite the same. Rosenqvist hasn't had the backing but has delivered in everything he's been in.

i don't want to be that guy, but a few years ago before he became fashionable to cheer for, he was the butt of the jokes for taking a very long time to win the f3 title. and that was with prema...

[S griffin]

Well looks like Sirotkin it will be. Guess there was no guarantee Kubica would be quite the same and it seemed Sirotkin did better in a well sorted car during the test. Wonder though if Kubica might help with development. Such a shame Wehrlein seems to have missed out, we'll if Sirotkin makes the most of his chance it looked like he missed (like Hartley has done)

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Good luck with that - Williams has not historically been an 'arm around the shoulder' team. Otherwise Frentzen may have gone better there.

To be fair though, Williams doesn't seem to be quite as fearsome a place under Claire as it was when Frank and Patrick were prowling the garage.

[chillibowl]

while im sad that we probably wont see a Kubica comeback story i feel like i am still more interested in seeing a younger line up at Williams.

ideally i would like to see Wehrlein paired with Stroll but, then again, overall i like it anytime we can see more youngsters get their shot so im looking forward to see what Sirotkin can do next year.

certainly agree with you guys about the decline of Williams though but the financial realities of F1 means it is what it is.

financial equality in the prize fund is probably unlikely so maybe its more optimistic to hope/require the larger teams to fund their development drivers at a rate that is equal to both what can be gained through private funding and/or at a level now required due to the financial inequalities the large teams themselves have created.

[djinvicta]

So much for the story last year of Martini wanting a "mature" driver for the Williams as they advertise alcohol then...that was cobblers..

[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by cds_uk

To be fair though, Williams doesn't seem to be quite as fearsome a place under Claire as it was when Frank and Patrick were prowling the garage.

Fearsome? No. Frank and Patrick shared their passion...they motivated drivers and won Championships then.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Fearsome? No. Frank and Patrick shared their passion...they motivated drivers and won Championships then.

Don't get me wrong, you can't argue about the results, Frank and Patrick are both legends, absolutely no argument there, my point was Kyvat benefiting from the arm around the shoulder approach, far more likely with Claire, Rob Smedley, Paddy Lowe etc, mind you, probably all by the by really.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by bella

i don't want to be that guy, but a few years ago before he became fashionable to cheer for, he was the butt of the jokes for taking a very long time to win the f3 title. and that was with prema...

Hey, you're that guy 🙂

He has come on very nicely the last few years though, performing well in everything.

All said, it would be a risk with Stroll in the other car, still with lots to learn. Kubica is the romantic choice but Wehrlein the sensible one imo.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Graz

Hey, you're that guy 🙂

He has come on very nicely the last few years though, performing well in everything.

All said, it would be a risk with Stroll in the other car, still with lots to learn. Kubica is the romantic choice but Wehrlein the sensible one imo.

just had to say it!

don't think sirotkin will disgrace himself, and i think wehrlein's whined himself out of formula one. anyone who's making out like there's an obvious answer to this is making it up though.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

i don't want to be that guy, but a few years ago before he became fashionable to cheer for, he was the butt of the jokes for taking a very long time to win the f3 title. and that was with prema...

He was with Mucke originally.

With Prema, he won the title immediately, 16 poles and 13 wins.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by wnut

He was with Mucke originally.

With Prema, he won the title immediately, 16 poles and 13 wins.

Yeah, but that was his fifth or sixth year at F3 level.
Granted, he did finish in the top 3 twice prior to that, but the fact remains that if any F1 team thought he was genuinely good enough, he'd have been in (and quite possibly out of) F1 by now.

[Skam85]

Wehrlein must have a shocker of a rep in the paddock for him to be not considered firstly for FI, and now for Williams after losing his seat in the slowest team. Sounds like he's di Resta-ed himself. Shame really, because he got the results for Sauber when the opportunity presented themselves. He didn't blow Ericsson out of the water though, which I'm sure didn't help.

[chunterer]

Nasr did a better job against Ericsson than Wehrlein it seems.

But then Ericsson isn't bog slow. He has always been fast just not very consistent.

[Skam85]

Agree, Ericsson isn't as bad as everyone makes him out to be. If he holds his own against Leclerc next year, that will be three years in a row he's measured admirably against highly-rated teammates.

[S griffin]

Yes Ericsson is talented, he didn't do too bad in junior formula, but he has never really made the most of it

[Mekola]

Ericsson is a good driver...

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Graz

Money talks. Williams are a shadow of a once great team. Frank has no input to who drives either.

Williams RIP.

Full disclosure, I did not watch the documentary, but I read the thread about the Williams documentary, with discussion of frank being so cold to his family and never going on vacation with them, etc, and I can't help but smile and appreciate what Claire Williams is doing. She is taking a cold, calculated approach to running the f1 team as a businees despite results, rather than as a passion, the same way frank apparently approached his family. It's like Frank's influence on Claire has led to Claire taking what he loved and treating it the way frank treated what claire wished he had loved more.

Bottom line, I'm becoming more and more of a Claire Williams fan. Still think stroll is a joke, though...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Bottom line, I'm becoming more and more of a Claire Williams fan. Still think stroll is a joke, though...

The team would be bonkers to ignore the cash that Stroll Snr showers on Williams. One needs to bear in mind that, apart from the silly money that they are paying for his race seat, they have also been paid somewhere in the region of $60 million per year (two at least, so far) to give Jnr the ability of private testing in two of their 2014 cars.

How could you turn that down, because it must be going straight back into the running of the team. Possibly part of the reason that Williams have made the technical hires recently that they have.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Full disclosure, I did not watch the documentary, but I read the thread about the Williams documentary, with discussion of frank being so cold to his family and never going on vacation with them, etc, and I can't help but smile and appreciate what Claire Williams is doing. She is taking a cold, calculated approach to running the f1 team as a businees despite results, rather than as a passion, the same way frank apparently approached his family. It's like Frank's influence on Claire has led to Claire taking what he loved and treating it the way frank treated what claire wished he had loved more.

That's an interesting perspective. Mine is similar, but maybe simpler. I think maybe both Frank and Claire just do what is needed to keep the team afloat first. That there is always a long view of "survivability", but also with the shorter term goal of success on track. In that respect maybe they are both very similar.

What I can't speak to is how much "drive" Claire has vs. Frank. And given the narrative of Frank's personality from the documentary, maybe not being "exactly" like Frank might be a good thing! (Nothing against Frank, here, but maybe I wouldn't want to be his spouse or young child!)

Another thought is that... maybe "Williams F1" needed someone like Frank with his laser focus to get to this point in the early days. But today, maybe not so much? Not to say they can relax, but my point is that the "optimal" leadership style may change over time given various factors.

Even with Patrick Head eventually being a strong partner, it seemed Williams was mostly a two person show (from a leadership perspective). Holding it all together via force of will. Today, teams can have a deeper management structure/leadership team that doesn't require everyone to be "on" 24/7.

Richard

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

So much for the story last year of Martini wanting a "mature" driver for the Williams as they advertise alcohol then...that was cobblers..

They could have Massa back as a testdriver, in order to fill that role...

[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by Mekola

They could have Massa back as a testdriver, in order to fill that role...

Please no....what a thought.

[loon]

I think the interesting comparison for Williams is Force India, Williams have the same engine and a much larger budget but can't compete anywhere near the level of Force India.