Silverstone Classic 2009 - Comments/Suggestions

[rbs]

Why do we need a cut off date when we have cars built in 2006/7/8/9 racing?

[Peter Mallett]

Not with you there.

[James Murray]

continuations/replicas I think Peterwhich now appear to have been welcomed with open arms and the flood gates are well and tuly open. In 20 years time there will be more of them than real cars and the distinction between the 2 will be blurred.

[Peter Mallett]

Ah, point taken. However the cut off still remains in terms of car and methods of propulsion etc.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by dirty boy

It's worth bearing in mind the audience they've tried to appeal to (with Pussy Cat Dolls, Blue) it's going to be anyone born around late 80's early 90's, hence you have to think about what cars were on the walls of those born at that time.

I'm not sure that the concerts and racing were aimed at the same audience. When I left on Friday there was a steady flow of people coming in to the circuit, who from their age and dress were clearly only there for the PCD concert.

With regards to the argument that it was too soon for the ST race, does anyone know what year the Group C cars first appeared at the Silverstone Classic? I suspect at the time the latest of the cars would have been a similar age to what the later ST cars are now.

On a totally unrelated note, what are people's opinions of the type of races being run. A lot of the races are the same as those run regularly at Masters/HSCC events. Obviously an easy option as you've pretty much got a ready made grid, but you loose some uniqueness. For all their faults the Touring Car race, and to a lesser extent the Mini race, at least felt like something different - a mix of cars that maybe you wouldn't normally see racing together. Does the Classic need to mix it up a bit more and distinguish itself for being just another Masters/HSCC meeting? That isn't necessarily intended as a criticism, merely an observation.

[LYNX]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Excuse my ignorance, what was the Scarf and Goggles?

The Scarf & Goggles was a mixture between Pub, Club, Music Venue and entertainment. A meeting point for exhausted spectators and racers alike. In the evening food, drimk and music. No check on BYO, important if you had a large family. Sadly missing this year.

[zefarelly]

as a musician I think gigs in the evening are a great idea, shame the big one wasn't on Sunday to entice the later crowds, and give the teams and drivers etc a chance to party.

I've always wanted to do a gig after a race, and if Sultana is busy hugging trees I'll call a few mates and see what we can scratch together . . .

[Peter Mallett]

Er, Sultana was a 70's disco thingy. Are you sure you want to be linked with them, I mean even you don't have that much hair?

[terence]

So as to keep the SC "In Period" so to speak,would be good to get an "in Period" Group in. Sod the PCD and the likes,Glam Crap! Get the Flloyd or Quo in,both are associated with Historic Racing,Chris Rea is another who's name springs to mind.

[Mike Bell]

Going back to the racing , the Mini and DLM races were specific to the year and so in 2010 I guess there will be something different. I have heard mention of one alternative, which sounds good to me as I have something eligible! My plea to organisers is to get whatever 'novelty' races they decide on sorted sooner rather than later and get the right racing people involved to sort out the grid.

(Going into fantasy mode, how about a team race for touring cars- 70s V 80s v 90s! Best of Gp2, GpA and ST cars......)

Access proplems in the padock area have been discussed here and elsewhere and hopefully noted. How about a member of the promoter team cruising round on a scoot in a liason role? It looked this year as if individual race organisers were as confused as us competitors at times.

SC 2010. A meeting for spectators ar competitors? We are all paying to get in, so all need to feel the vfm. This year I felt that the latter were not as well catered for, and the balance could have been better. As one of 2 meetings that most would enter in the blink of an eye given opportunity and the right car, it would be good to see SC making the headlines next year- but for the racing, not the concert line up..........

[midgetman]

Re the STs and Minis, IMO it's a good idea to bring in something that's not mainstream every year. Ring the changes. And if it works, keep it, if not - well, give another group of racers the chance for their day in the sun. Someone said more "clubbie races", aren't the STs/Minis only used in club events these days?

What suggestions are there to fill the "vacant plinth" of historic racing next year? I've got a video of the (?)1990 event with the Healey championship----hot rod Sprites vs 3000s made good viewing (grabs tin hat)

[rbs]

Originally Posted by midgetman

What suggestions are there to fill the "vacant plinth" of historic racing next year? I've got a video of the (?)1990 event with the Healey championship----hot rod Sprites vs 3000s made good viewing (grabs tin hat)

There are any ammount of classes that coud be introduced, F5000, FF1600, Supersports Cup and a saloon car race with some V8's in.

[Tim the Grey]

I would think alternate years the Classic could 'major' on open wheelers, then covered wheel? Keep certain races, like WSM in the dusk and prewar, with saloons and sportscars one year, then have a selection from F1, F5000, FF1600, F2/F3/FA, Frenault/Ford 2000 etc. Not to the total exclusion of anything, just to lean one way, then the other? You could combine some races, as club events do now with older cars?

As I also said elsewhere, you could shorten some races without losing the quality of the racing, helping to keep the 'clubbie' feel? Kids have short attention spans, so give them shorter races. Grown ups can have longer ones.

[zefarelly]

transit van racing and Dr Feelgood/the blockheads (I've gigged with both of them as it happens )

job done!

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

As I also said elsewhere, you could shorten some races without losing the quality of the racing, helping to keep the 'clubbie' feel? Kids have short attention spans, so give them shorter races. Grown ups can have longer ones.

and for the most senior races a compulsory bathroom break/pit stop

we'd need a hiab in the pits to get some of them in and out of cars

[morninggents]

[QUOTE=Tim the Grey;2517219]I would think alternate years the Classic could 'major' on open wheelers, then covered wheel? Keep certain races, like WSM in the dusk and prewar, with saloons and sportscars one year, then have a selection from F1, F5000, FF1600, F2/F3/FA, Frenault/Ford 2000 etc. Not to the total exclusion of anything, just to lean one way, then the other? You could combine some races, as club events do now with older cars?



Can't agree as the SC appeal is diversity over the weekend. I can't see any appeal in all open wheelers racing over 2 days.

Diversity is the key but getting the right mix is the trick - it'll never please everyone.

[KA]

Originally Posted by redshoes

With regards to the argument that it was too soon for the ST race, does anyone know what year the Group C cars first appeared at the Silverstone Classic? I suspect at the time the latest of the cars would have been a similar age to what the later ST cars are now.

Early 2000s I reckon- Historic Group C races were definitely happening by 2001- I remember them being amongst the supports when the ALMS came over to Donington in 2001, and I reckon the first time I saw them at a Silverstone Classic would have been 2002/3-ish.
Grids were initially very small, and usually padded out with an invitation class for earlier cars, GTs etc- from memory, the Silverstone Classic was the one of the first meetings to bring out a decent grid of 20-25 cars, running 2 races- a longer one on the Saturday evening and a sprint on the Sunday.

[john ruston]

Tim.Grown ups pay the entry fee and they want seat time!Lots of short races at 800 quid a time will not cut the mustard.Only Goodwood gets away with that which may now change with the introduction of an entry fee.
The older cars can do 45 mins but not others.I can see no place in a Historic Festival for club racing formulas such as FF,F2000,Silhouettes and all these other ideas that usually John Webb dreamt up in 60's and onwards

[john ruston]

Mised out G1 Sallons as a thing not to have.

[James Murray]

Didnt watch any races at the event itself apart from the night race which was superb, even my grumpy uncle enjoyed it, but have watched most of them on TV over last couple of weeks and what was obvious was that the best and healthiest races were ones which are the most popular historic classes ie. HGPCA, Gentleman Drivers, FJ,U2TC.

The one off races were poorly supported and a poor spectacle and although the idea and vision of these special races by the event organisers may appeal in October when they are trying to establish a race programme they generally dissapoint due to not enough cars being available or for whatever other reasons and fail to meet expectation. An alternative would be to look through other historic classes when trying to flesh out the programme which are well supported as a healthier grid and an enhanced spectacle would be achieved.

It would have been possible to get 40 plus grids for this years event of Supersports cars, 60/70's Roadsports, Historic F2 all of which would have looked and sounded better than 20 Mini variants or a Formula Libre Touring car race IMHO.

[Tim the Grey]

I never said anything about ALL of anything...

JR, I would have thought paying more for more track time is how these things work? I don't pay race entries, so I don't really know, but that makes sense to me. I cannot see why it's not possible to vary race lengths from year to year, even if the same cars run?

Zef? I'm sure a Bentley has room under the seat for a commode...

[terence]

I agree with James,it cant be beyond the whit of man to check gate figures of Historic events over the course of a year,look to see which gave the better attendances etc.
JR,exactly my point,re £800 for a forty minuit is a little on the high side and I would have thought there must be room in that figure for it to be reduced, Coys were asking that for thier double sixty but had to drop to £500 to try and fill the grids.Must be a sign of the times!

[simon drabble]

The problem with the Coys race was that it was so vague on its regs in the first instance and also it was not a premium meeting. That being said it was great value in the final price and if they had allowed 60's sports racers I would have entered.
I don't think there was a lot wrong with the races just that the more modern stuff don't understand that premium events carry a premium!
I think the idea of a special race each year is good and suggest next year historic Sports 2000....would also be nice to have a race for 23B's etc....

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by KA

Early 2000s I reckon- Historic Group C races were definitely happening by 2001- I remember them being amongst the supports when the ALMS came over to Donington in 2001, and I reckon the first time I saw them at a Silverstone Classic would have been 2002/3-ish.

Thanks, that confirms what I had thought. Group C cars were last raced in period in 1993 and as a classic formula 8/9 years later. The last of the Supertourers were built in 2000 and last raced internationally in 2001 so the timing isn't far off.

[eigger]

i attended as a member of a car club, spectating and pointing my camera at cars for 3 days. I thought I'd add my two penneth from my perspective...
This event has been improving steadily over the last 2 or 3 years but it seems to be case of not being able please all of the people all of the time. Racers and spectators (and marshalls etc etc) can probably appreciate each others viewpoint but each have different needs - the 'trucks in the paddock' debate is a good example of this. Overall i think for the last two years that SC have struck a pretty good balance of meeting everyones needs. I think the paddock area this year was a big improvement (but the racers may disagree!)
I was pleased to see the modern porsche race absent - i never understood its inclusion in previous years.
I missed the V8 touring cars but in some ways the jack Sears was a better race without them - maybe good to have a separate race for mustangs/galaxies/falcons in future ?
I wasn't interested in the concerts. On the saturday evening my ears were still ringing from from the WSM race. This is the highlight of the event (especially the 2 Alfa 33s and the Ferrari 512) and must be kept.
I missed the pre war GP cars. I know Bugattis and ERAs look a bit out of place at Silverstone compared to say Cadwell, but they are fantastic entertainment both visually and aurally.
Other standout races were the pre-66 GP cars (fantastically close racing) and the Gentleman Drivers (beautiful cars).
The off track entertainment wasn't quite as good as last year - I missed the biplane wing-walkers ! I suspect the reduced crowd on the sunday was due to the forecasted wet weather that didn't materialise. Goodwoods recent policy of pre-booked tickets probably benefits them here.
The traffic management could be improved, however. It's always a pain on arrival to be sent from the main gates round to Luffield to come all the way back the bridge to get to the infield car club area (again, thats my personal gripe - old car queueing in hot weather with a ever inceasing temp. - probably not a big deal for others) . Also it seemed that at the end of races cars were sent through the infield crowds to get back to the paddock - this seemed unecessary (but provided some good photo ops). i hope this adds constructively to the debate.