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Old 1 Feb 2014, 21:35 (Ref:3363019)   #121
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It has already been speculated some time ago in Racecar Engineering that the twin ERS-K on the Toyota could develop a combined power output of the order of 450kW (approx. 600 HP), which would be by far sufficient to harvest more than 8MJ per lap at LM. That would amount to little less than 18sec of boost if they use both MGUs to release the maximum of 8MJ allowed by the rules.

Now, Toyota could opt to release energy exclusively at the front (or at the back as the case may be), in effect doubling the boost duration with half the available power (assuming two MGUs each developing the same power output).

The twin ERS-K will however also increase cooling demands I suspect. I am looking forward to seeing how Toyota will package this system and the related cooling systems.
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Old 1 Feb 2014, 21:57 (Ref:3363027)   #122
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I really hope so, but don't forget those extra horsies are only available a small part of the lap, while the aerodynamical disadvantages of the 2014-spec cars compared to the 2013 ones last the whole lap!
disadvantge ? With the allowing of the wing profiles at the front and the full widht rear wing, the aerodynamic efficiency should get a little bit better.
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Old 1 Feb 2014, 22:27 (Ref:3363037)   #123
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I really hope so, but don't forget those extra horsies are only available a small part of the lap, while the aerodynamical disadvantages of the 2014-spec cars compared to the 2013 ones last the whole lap!
True, but they'll still be able to reach their terminal velocity far quicker this way. Add to that the smaller frontal area and consequently lower drag coŽfficient and we might just see some laprecords being broken...
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Old 2 Feb 2014, 02:13 (Ref:3363105)   #124
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It has already been speculated some time ago in Racecar Engineering that the twin ERS-K on the Toyota could develop a combined power output of the order of 450kW (approx. 600 HP), which would be by far sufficient to harvest more than 8MJ per lap at LM. That would amount to little less than 18sec of boost if they use both MGUs to release the maximum of 8MJ allowed by the rules.

Now, Toyota could opt to release energy exclusively at the front (or at the back as the case may be), in effect doubling the boost duration with half the available power (assuming two MGUs each developing the same power output).

The twin ERS-K will however also increase cooling demands I suspect. I am looking forward to seeing how Toyota will package this system and the related cooling systems.
Fortunately for Toyota theyve had near 7 or 8 years to develop the supercapacitor. They were making 300hp on their full releases of around 2.2/2.3 seconds. So double that- 7MJ, they could do 300hp for a full release of 4.5 seconds going by the current formula of 7 'release zones'. 7 x 4.5 = 31.5 seconds of 300hp per lap. Thats conservative... if they go 8MJ option they can go almost 36-37 seconds per lap on the 300hp boost. You can see why theyre quietly confident.
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Old 2 Feb 2014, 11:46 (Ref:3363219)   #125
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It is reasonable to expect that the combined ERS-K + ERS-H to be used by Audi and Porsche will also be able to recover energy in excess of 8MJ per lap at LM and that they are likely to use an MGU at the front with a power of the order of 225 kW (300 HP), equating to less than 36sec of hybrid boost.

If Toyota do opt for an energy release via the two MGUs at the front and at the back, the TS040 is going to be massively quicker than the competition exiting corners. That will be interesting to watch and I wonder how the drivers (and tires) will cope with double the power output when the ERS kicks in.

Assuming however that Toyota opt for a more "conservative" energy release strategy using only one MGU (e.g. at the front), I would expect that we will not see major differences between the trio of manufacturers as far as ERS usage is concerned.

In any event, engine/fuel efficiency is going to play a major role and it remains to be seen if Toyota are confident that they can achieve the expected efficiency targets. Not so long ago, we heard them complaining about this issue.
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Old 2 Feb 2014, 13:27 (Ref:3363252)   #126
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I believe if they opt for larger power then the time of power releasing will be shorter? Larger power of ERS also means more tire wear. So I doubt any of the three manufacturers will choose to maximize power, instead, a balance of power output, ERS releasing time and tire wear.
A total output of 900 might be possible I believe, with minor variances of all three.
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Old 2 Feb 2014, 23:57 (Ref:3363438)   #127
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Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel View Post
It is reasonable to expect that the combined ERS-K + ERS-H to be used by Audi and Porsche will also be able to recover energy in excess of 8MJ per lap at LM and that they are likely to use an MGU at the front with a power of the order of 225 kW (300 HP), equating to less than 36sec of hybrid boost.

If Toyota do opt for an energy release via the two MGUs at the front and at the back, the TS040 is going to be massively quicker than the competition exiting corners. That will be interesting to watch and I wonder how the drivers (and tires) will cope with double the power output when the ERS kicks in.

Assuming however that Toyota opt for a more "conservative" energy release strategy using only one MGU (e.g. at the front), I would expect that we will not see major differences between the trio of manufacturers as far as ERS usage is concerned.

In any event, engine/fuel efficiency is going to play a major role and it remains to be seen if Toyota are confident that they can achieve the expected efficiency targets. Not so long ago, we heard them complaining about this issue.
We heard them complaining of the difference in targets. The ACO's target efficiency for diesel is 'easily achieved' compared to that of petrol. Thats the voice of Kinosh ta's concern. But we also read that they achieved 40% efficiency with the TS030. Im sure they're over the COMPLAINTS now.
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Old 3 Feb 2014, 13:55 (Ref:3363619)   #128
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Fortunately for Toyota theyve had near 7 or 8 years to develop the supercapacitor. They were making 300hp on their full releases of around 2.2/2.3 seconds. So double that- 7MJ, they could do 300hp for a full release of 4.5 seconds going by the current formula of 7 'release zones'. 7 x 4.5 = 31.5 seconds of 300hp per lap. Thats conservative... if they go 8MJ option they can go almost 36-37 seconds per lap on the 300hp boost. You can see why theyre quietly confident.
Comparative F1 vs LMP1
One question for TF110 or another guy with all lot of knowledge.
The LMP1 will have 36 or 37 seconds per lap on the 300 hp boost in Le mans (13.6 Km). That could be 150 hp for 72 or 74 seconds.
The F1 will have 30 seconds per lap on 160 hp boost in circuit around 6 or 7 Km. Could this be the same time/power relationship like LMP1?
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Old 4 Feb 2014, 09:54 (Ref:3363986)   #129
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Comparative F1 vs LMP1
One question for TF110 or another guy with all lot of knowledge.
The LMP1 will have 36 or 37 seconds per lap on the 300 hp boost in Le mans (13.6 Km). That could be 150 hp for 72 or 74 seconds.
The F1 will have 30 seconds per lap on 160 hp boost in circuit around 6 or 7 Km. Could this be the same time/power relationship like LMP1?
I think theyre limited to a set amount of power per lap in both series'. I think the equation is around 2/3 the power for a 6-7km track in lmp1. So LeMans 8mj per lap = 5-7mj per lap on tracks like Silverstone or Spa.
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Old 4 Feb 2014, 11:28 (Ref:3364012)   #130
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Previously, ACO set brake zones. In Le Mans case, it's seven, so 500kJ*7=3.5MJ, but in most sprint races there are 4 zones, so the total energy is 2MJ instead of 3.5, similar power but surely less boost time. In the F1 scenario, it's 400kJ a lap before 2014, so less than what LMP can harvest in a corner.
Forgot about the new regs though, but I'm sure 8MJ energy and boost time is still restricted to Le Sarthe.
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Old 4 Feb 2014, 14:55 (Ref:3364064)   #131
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thanks for your answer
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Old 10 Feb 2014, 09:35 (Ref:3366383)   #132
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I moved the lengthy posts about different energy storage systems to the technical regulations discussion thread.
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Old 11 Feb 2014, 09:06 (Ref:3366788)   #133
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Teaser shot of the TS040, and a part very key to lmp1-



The fuel flow meter.
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Old 11 Feb 2014, 09:34 (Ref:3366804)   #134
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OOhhh ..... the paint job looks like its kinda got thin white lines running in it ..... possibily a bit on the arty side .
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Old 11 Feb 2014, 10:23 (Ref:3366827)   #135
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Looks like that the livery's gonna be the same as from previous year (my opinion).
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