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6 Oct 2018, 12:06 (Ref:3854871) | #176 | ||
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They need to restrict the correct areas or change how the cars produce downforce. You’re always going to get engineers that can outsmart the rules but restrict wing size and number of elements and increase aero from the underside of the car would be a good start
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6 Oct 2018, 12:08 (Ref:3854873) | #177 | ||
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7 Oct 2018, 01:06 (Ref:3855048) | #178 | ||
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Quote:
The Overtaking Working Group (OWG) determined before the rule changes instituted in 2009 that the biggest obstacle to overtaking and following was the amount of downforce generated by the cars and the resultant wake turbulence. The OWG’s efforts were unsuccessful because the teams managed to claw back an estimated 85% of the downforce reduction by the beginning of the 2009 season, using the larger wings allowed and a loophole that allowed double diffusers. In 2014 the FIA allowed the introduction of hybrid ERS power units, the weight limit of the cars was gradually increased year on year until it had increased by around 200 kg by 2014 to compensate for the increased mass of the required KERS systems and batteries, this configuration required more downforce to run similar lap times. The rules were changed in 2017, allowing wider tyres and bigger wings to generate more downforce to compensate for the heavy cars which in 2007 now weighed 720kg. In short the OWG identified the cause of the overtaking problems as too much downforce and wake turbulence, F1 has never introduced effective regulation to deal with the problem of excessive downforce! |
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7 Oct 2018, 10:53 (Ref:3855158) | #179 | ||
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The first thing Ferrari need: To hire a skilled and proven chief strategist. The second: A skilled and proven chief driver any chance? |
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7 Oct 2018, 12:59 (Ref:3855182) | #180 | ||
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7 Oct 2018, 14:18 (Ref:3855216) | #181 | |
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They need Leclerc to not waste this chance and prove he is the future
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
7 Oct 2018, 16:23 (Ref:3855256) | #182 | |
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7 Oct 2018, 17:06 (Ref:3855263) | #183 | ||
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I think this is the wrong way round;if Leclerc is to have any kind of career he needs them to stop acting like Ferrari in the years when the Todt/Brawn have not been running the outfit.Apart from the blip that accompanied the Schumacher era,they have always been a bit Italian in the way they do things. |
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8 Oct 2018, 10:00 (Ref:3855379) | #184 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHuhgC9tEyo |
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8 Oct 2018, 17:31 (Ref:3855481) | #185 | ||
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Ferrari will stay in F1 as they use it as a marketing tool. For instance they, today, launched a special F1 edition road car.
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8 Oct 2018, 17:46 (Ref:3855486) | #186 | |||
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Quote:
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9 Oct 2018, 05:56 (Ref:3855587) | #187 | |
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Explanation for what has happened to Ferrari performance:
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/23137...-time-low.html No Marchionnre to mediate between Arrivibene and Binotto. |
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9 Oct 2018, 09:17 (Ref:3855621) | #188 | |
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Nothing to do with the weight of that extra sensor the FIA forced on them then?
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9 Oct 2018, 17:15 (Ref:3855720) | #189 | |||
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And that explains a lack of performance? No, I don't get it. |
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10 Oct 2018, 00:40 (Ref:3855797) | #190 | |
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Perhaps not in the outright pace of the car, although the latest rear suspension upgrade seems have been a complete dog, but certainly in terms of the strategy blunders we have seen lately.
If however the various parties are doing everything in their power to discredit one another, then anything is possible. |
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10 Oct 2018, 04:12 (Ref:3855823) | #191 | |
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10 Oct 2018, 04:23 (Ref:3855826) | #192 | ||
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Personally, I don't get how Ferrari can be stopped doing something that wasn't specified in the regulations, and if they were why does the FIA not just come out and specify what everyone is now not allowed to do? |
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10 Oct 2018, 15:12 (Ref:3855923) | #193 | ||
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But to your comment about FIA, Ferrari, sensors and exactly what is going on. It has been somewhat discussed to death and a touchy subject because depending upon your position, you may be saying Ferrari is cheating. To expand upon my prior comments, I agree very much with the Scarbs video that was linked earlier. He touches on this, but in general this entire engine regulation formula has checks built into the system to allow for extensive monitoring. Be it energy flows within the hybrid system, fuel flow monitoring for the ICE and torque sensors on the output of the entire system. So the thought/plan has always been that we (FIA) can monitor exactly what is going on, with the goal being this is used to spot cheating. We see all the inputs and outputs, what happens inside is up to team. My theory (pure speculation) is that Ferrari has done something different and in a way that the existing sensor setup might be blind to a novel solution. Given that the FIA is fully aware of each team's general technical solution it is likely that only Ferrari has the unusual setup. Whoever asked FIA to clarify (Mercedes?) probably has a rough understanding of what Ferrari's setup is and also may understand that there might be a way it can be exploited. The fact that something could be exploited and not detected by existing sensors setup may have been news to the FIA. As to your final point as to why the FIA just doesn't publicly clarify things (don't do this or that), I expect the issue is that... First, FIA was blind to whatever may or may not have happened previously, Second, with additional sensors in place they have probably not detected anything nefarious, Third, without any evidence to the contrary, Ferrari hasn't done anything wrong and a clarification would expose a legal Ferrari solution in which they wish to keep secret. There may yet be other legal advantages to whatever they are doing. I expect Ferrari has agreed to allow for the extra sensors (to meet the FIAs need to feel they are able to monitor all energy flow questions) but with the condition that the FIA not spill the beans as to what exactly is going on. This is why Ferrari has made noise recently about questions of why details are seeping out around the extra sensor. In short, they are questioning if the FIA is keeping up their end of the deal. If... another manufactures gives indication to the FIA that they plan to do something similar, then at that point it may no longer be a Ferrari specific situation and then there might be a general clarification as to the need by the FIA to have additional sensors for everyone. And the extra sensor(s) may only make sense if a given design is used. This could even show up at some point in the future (for 2019 or 2020). But for now, I expect the FIA feels they are getting what they want (extra monitoring data) and Ferrari is getting to keep their secret sauce... secret. Now the obvious questions is... Was Ferrari doing something shady previously that was missed by the FIA sensor system and now that the FIA has a new sensor they have stopped and that this is the reason for an apparently loss of performance... I expect only Ferrari knows if this is true or not. I have no opinion one way or the other. And if this is true, and the FIA was blind to this, they have no evidence to make accusations. Richard |
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10 Oct 2018, 17:27 (Ref:3855953) | #194 | |
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Best post on the subject I have read so far. Well put, Richard.
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10 Oct 2018, 17:34 (Ref:3855954) | #195 | ||
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Yes, I agree. Sounds pretty much on the money to me.
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10 Oct 2018, 18:37 (Ref:3855964) | #196 | |
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Thank you both for the positive feedback!
Richard |
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10 Oct 2018, 18:42 (Ref:3855965) | #197 | |
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Brilliant post.
I would add that given the ECUs are standard, sealed components, that adds another layer of difficulty in fooling the system. |
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10 Oct 2018, 19:53 (Ref:3855977) | #198 | ||
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Enjoyable read. Great context given for the principles involved and also for what is known and what is speculation. Thanks from me too.
I would also add that the addition of the sensors did not coincide with the loss of form, which was May (source: Mark Hughes). |
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10 Oct 2018, 22:23 (Ref:3856020) | #199 | |
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11 Oct 2018, 10:16 (Ref:3856087) | #200 | |
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Explanations of Ferrari's top speed reduction from Mark Hughes.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...engine-mystery No extra sensor ever fitted. Ferrari running high mileage engine did not wish to risk it, Singapore is the least power sensitive circuit so engine turned down, Sochi increased tyre temps needed more wing. Then in Japan Mercedes appeared to find a trick of their own and were running 312kph through speed trap in free practice 1 compared to Ferrari at 302, then Merc turned their engines down and ran 306 to 307kph. |
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