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Old 20 Nov 2012, 06:18 (Ref:3168926)   #76
terence
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
I don't think it has to be proven, Joe. The mods allowed for App K cars are either on the homologation papers or contained in the overriding App K regs as shown in post 1 of this thread. Surely it is up to the entrant of any car running to App K regs to ensure that their car complies. If they believe ABC or XYZ applied in period they must prove it. It is not enough to say that this or that person/company cheated in period and, therefore, that is OK today.
It bloody well isn't!

Sorry for the language - it get's me a bit hot under the collar.

No need to apologise,has/had the same effect on me,so decided to walk away from "FIA" Historics,so much wrong,it'll never get put right.
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Old 20 Nov 2012, 07:01 (Ref:3168932)   #77
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Originally Posted by terence bower View Post
No need to apologise,has/had the same effect on me,so decided to walk away from "FIA" Historics,so much wrong,it'll never get put right.
Thats one of the main reasons i run under HRSR regs. There is a CLEAR set of regs which allows me to modify/develop my car without ambiguity.
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Old 20 Nov 2012, 12:03 (Ref:3169034)   #78
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think you misunderstood my post Peter, I agree with you, but we've had people saying 'I was there in period and we did this' Well maybe they did, but it was cheating then and is now . . . or they're being asked to lie. either way its wrong.

re the regs, there are many club series with simple, pragmatic, practical and effective regs, not just HSCC, but CTCRC and HRDC amongst others.

The problem with the FiA stance (IMO) is not the Homologation papers of any individual car ( they're very black and white) its the moving target which is App K . . .it changes year on year, this is what gets re-interpreted by lots of wannabe Red bull historic race preparers. the Original pre 66 App J hasn't changed, andmaybe thats what should be used, and I'm sure the same exists for later periods also.
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Old 20 Nov 2012, 15:55 (Ref:3169098)   #79
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Didn't misunderstand, Joe - just took the opportunity for a further rant. I well know your views on pushing the App K boundaries and I think, generally, we sing from the same hymn sheet.
Sorry if you thought I was getting at you.

The overriding App K regs as detailed in post 1 of this thread are pretty specific, in my view, and don't leave any area for 'interpretation'.
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Old 20 Nov 2012, 16:01 (Ref:3169099)   #80
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What a shame that all "Historic" racers dont have the same mind set Peter.
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Old 3 Jan 2013, 14:05 (Ref:3184226)   #81
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imperatore should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi everyone,
in UK you're lucky! You can race in historyc challenge without the HTP paper! In Italy this isn't possible or you obtain a HTP or your historyc racecar stay in the garage....
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Old 4 Jan 2013, 08:45 (Ref:3184522)   #82
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[QUOTE=zefarelly;3169034]I think you misunderstood my post Peter, I agree with you, but we've had people saying 'I was there in period and we did this' Well maybe they did, but it was cheating then and is now . . . or they're being asked to lie. either way its wrong.

I have some sympathy for the "I Was There" people. Everyone from blokes in sheds to the works teams were always experimenting. This meant lots of modified components were built, some adopted some discarded. Not all of them were adopted for homologation. (They were however good for getting 11 year olds wandering round the paddock excited.)
Even the factory teams would not waste resources by designing and building componenets in order to homologate them before using them in competition. So I don`t believe it was neccessarily cheating in the day.

Last edited by Robert Farrell; 4 Jan 2013 at 09:06. Reason: Rambling!
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Old 4 Jan 2013, 10:30 (Ref:3184557)   #83
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When has there never been cheating in this sport, its everywhere, rife and always will be, sad really but thats the nature of the beast.
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Old 4 Jan 2013, 17:07 (Ref:3184718)   #84
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=Robert Farrell;3184522]
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Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
I think you misunderstood my post Peter, I agree with you, but we've had people saying 'I was there in period and we did this' Well maybe they did, but it was cheating then and is now . . . or they're being asked to lie. either way its wrong.

I have some sympathy for the "I Was There" people. Everyone from blokes in sheds to the works teams were always experimenting. This meant lots of modified components were built, some adopted some discarded. Not all of them were adopted for homologation. (They were however good for getting 11 year olds wandering round the paddock excited.)
Even the factory teams would not waste resources by designing and building componenets in order to homologate them before using them in competition. So I don`t believe it was neccessarily cheating in the day.
In some respects I agree,considering the MG Magnette with all alloy panels,wasn't disclosed until a scrutineer had a play with a magnet.
I think the biggest problems are hidden away in the mechanicals though.They did not have the materials available in period.Probably couldn't turn a 3.8 into a 5 litre etc etc etc et----e.
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Old 7 Jan 2013, 06:57 (Ref:3185840)   #85
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
As has been said before though, we can't unlearn what we know. You don't wear straw shoes in the rain!
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Old 7 Jan 2013, 07:12 (Ref:3185843)   #86
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So what's the point if it all?
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Old 7 Jan 2013, 07:38 (Ref:3185852)   #87
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thats the question . . . . although, in my opinion the specific homologations are pretty black and white and a majority of people take the ****.

I guess the point is, its supposed to be enjoyable and competitive, we all get more enjoyment from different aspects.
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Old 7 Jan 2013, 08:12 (Ref:3185865)   #88
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Or as the FIA or MSA state,"It's supposed to be FUN".Although if certain people,instead of being overwhelmed by their own supposed self importance,it could be a lot more!
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Old 7 Jan 2013, 08:15 (Ref:3185866)   #89
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So what's the point if it all?
We're all doomed, doomed I tell yee.

Perhaps the App K regs should exclude the bit about proving that a certain vehicle raced in period as such and just say, if you want to race this car then this is what you can do. We didn't have Photoshop in the 60s.
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Old 7 Jan 2013, 10:58 (Ref:3185924)   #90
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid


nothing more!
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